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  • FreemanGriffin
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    #428244

    Hey guys, we’ll be doing the Goldies pretty soon, and I have some questions about category placements.

    My first question is: are we evaluating performances from the calendar year 2014 or since the last Goldies ballot? Because I definitely would change my choices based on each criteria…

    What constitutes a Guest role? Is it based on contracts, amount of episodes, periodic visits? I was surprised by Lynn Herring’s win last year, I didn’t really think of her as a “guest”, but as a semi-regular Supporting Actress… So, I’m thinking that guests would be Eileen Davidson, Robin Mattson, Meredith Baxter, Donna Mills, Anders Hove, Sebastian Roche, Bradford Anderson, Ilene Kristen (among others)…. would a semi-regular such as Leslie Charleson be considered a “guest”?

    I regard Kristen Storms and Nancy Lee Grahn as leads on GH but would they belong in the Supporting Actress category? I remember regarding Arianne Zucker as a lead last year and she got the Supporting Actress citation from the Goldies…. I could see Freddie Smith being considered Supporting for 2014, but I think he’s definitely a lead for 2015… I remember placing Greg Vaughan in both lead and supporting last year because I wasn’t sure where he would “land” (he won Supporting, which he should have won at the Emmys as well)…. anyway, interested in where you guys think actors should “land” for this year’s Goldies??

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    EmmyLoser
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    #428246

    Good questions, Freeman.  I agree with you, I didn’t think Lynn Herring really belonged in the guest/limited performer category last year, but I think it’s meant to include both characters who are on for a short stint or stints like Donna Mills or Susan Seaforth Hayes and characters who are just in roles that are really too minor to make them viable supporting candidates.  I don’t see Lucy belonging to either category, but that’s where she was nominated.  

    I think I preferred back when we would list all of actors who were questionable and vote on where they belonged before we commenced voting for nominations.  I think the current system where you can just vote for any actor in whichever category you like inspires people to shift actors from crowded categories to less crowded ones even if they don’t really belong there, and also creates a situation where some votes are wasted because you end up voting for people in more than one category out of fear of not knowing where others will vote them.  Or we could follow the Emmy example and do pre-nomination voting, with everyone picking 10 candidates for a long list of contenders in each category.

    In the past, Goldies consideration has always been based on the calendar year, so we’d be looking at 2014 as a whole.  I believe that according to Goldies rules, a person who is eligible for younger actor for part of the year under Emmy rules would be eligible for the whole year.  Freddie Smith would compete in younger actor rather than lead or supporting, if we have younger acting categories, which we didn’t a couple of years ago (leading to Chandler Massey getting a lead actor nomination between two younger actor nominations).  

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    robbalto
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    #428247

    I would like to discuss placement for Arianne Zucker. Lead or supporting? I think of her more as a lead, but I am ok with her in either category. Thoughts?

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    EmmyLoser
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    #428248

    I feel pretty much the same about Arianne Zucker.  I think of her more as a lead for 2014, but I wouldn’t be too adamant about that.

    Please bear with me here because I know I’ve had a lot of thoughts about this, but something I asked after the prenoms were revealed (in relation to the six lead actor prenoms for Y&R) has stuck with me: how many leads can a soap opera have?  I would say a reasonable number is four per gender for hourlong shows, and either two or three for half hour shows.  So I would start listing actors or actresses on each show in order of leadliness (however you want to define that: screentime, impact on storyline, prominence of character, impact of performances) and cut it off at four (or two or three for B&B).  Anyone after that is supporting. 

    So if I’m thinking about DAYS in 2014, I would say Alison Sweeney, Lauren Koslow, Arianne Zucker and Kristian Alfonso, leaving out Kate Mansi (who had a lot of screentime all year), Deidre Hall (who appeared plenty but largely in a supporting capacity) and Queen Eileen (whose character, despite only being on for a few months, was basically the catalyst for a few characters’ storylines all year). For the men, I’d say James Scott, Eric Martsolf, Shawn Christian, and Greg Vaughan, with Daniel Cosgrove falling just below these guys. 

    If I do GH (and I was sporadic in my GH watching, so, you know, grain of salt), the lead actresses I think of would be Laura Wright, Kelly Monaco, Maura West and (tough call here) Finola Hughes, who comes in ahead of Nancy Lee Grahn for me because her character felt more important to me and really based on gut feeling.  I’d put Grahn in supporting along with potential borderline cases like Kirsten Storms and Michelle Stafford (whose character, for me, was just too extreme to be a lead, kind of like I felt about Stacy Haiduk on Y&R).  For actor, I would say Maurice Benard, Jason Thompson, Anthony Geary and (again, tough call) probably I guess Roger Howarth over some of the other sporadically prominent men on the show like Tyler Christopher, Chad Duell and William deVry.  Just my way of trying to organize all of this. 

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    gdfl
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    #428249

    ^^  I think this system adds a lot of clarity.  While there may be still be some debate (some examples below), the lines need to be drawn somewhere and these suggestions are great.

    The only changes I would make would be to swap Michelle Stafford in to Lead for Finola Hughes into Supporting, and Lauren Koslow into Supporting as well.  Like Days’ Kristen, I thought Kate and GH’s Anna were plot catalysts whereas GH’s Nina was her own story, even if that story was all over the place.  

    Maybe this debate woud be solved if there was a maximum number of Leads, but those slots don’t all need to be filled.  Days could then have three (assuming Koslow would be Supporting), and so would Y&R (MTS, Sharon Case, Amelia Heinle).
     

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    FreemanGriffin
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    #428250

    I consider the following Lead Actresses from 2014 (storylines consistently are about their characters, rather than supporting other characters; and they have enough screentime – in the case of maternity leaves, it’s a judgment call):

    B&B: Katherine Kelly Lang (Brooke), Kim Matula (Hope), and Heather Tom (Katie)
    Days: Jen Lilley (Teresa), Chrishell Stause (Jordan), Alison Sweeney (Sami), and Arianne Zucker (Nicole)
    GH: Nancy Lee Grahn (Alexis), Kelly Monaco (Sam), Michelle Stafford (Nina), Kirsten Storms (Maxie), Kelly Thiebaud (Britt), Maura West (Ava), and Laura Wright (Carly)
    Y&R: Sharon Case (Sharon), Jessica Collins (Avery), Melissa Claire Egan (Chelsea), Melody Thomas Scott (Nikki), and Gina Tognoni (Phyllis)

    So, other actresses would be either Supporting or Guest….imho

    For Actors:

    B&B: Darin Brooks (Wyatt), Scott Clifton (Liam), Don Diamont (Bill), Thorsten Kaye (Ridge), and Jacob Young (Rick)
    Days: Shawn Christian (Daniel), Billy Flynn (Chad), and James Scott (E.J.)
    GH: Maurice Benard (Sonny), Tyler Christopher (Nikolas), Anthony Geary (Luke), Roger Howarth (Franco) and Jason Thompson (Patrick)
     Y&R: Peter Bergman (Jack), Eric Braeden (Victor), Steve Burton (Dylan), Justin Hartley (Adam) Burgess Jenkins (Billy), Christian LeBlanc (Michael), and Joshua Morrow (Nick)

    Well, that’s my take on the matter…. btw, I put NLG in lead because she had her own storylines consistently throughout 2014. Julian, Ned, Molly, Ric all touched her storylines and she sometimes supported them, but I still regard her as a lead for 2014 (jmho)…. Kirsten Storms was gone on maternity leave, as was Teresa Castillo, but Storms felt more LEAD to me and Castillo felt more supporting… judgment calls, I know!

    I put Daniel Cosgrove and Kristian Alfonso in Supporting due to a lack of screen time. I watched Days every single day and I felt they were MIA alot during 2014…

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    EmmyLoser
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    #428251

    It’s all a matter of perspective, of course, and depending on how the voting is done, we probably don’t need to agree anyway.  I can completely see Kristian Alfonso being considered supporting, because I can see that she was somewhat borderline, but to me the fact that she’s a major character on the show who went through a major transition is enough to push her over.  It seems odd to determine some placement based on not enough screen time (as with Cosgrove and Alfonso) while others who were only on for part of the year or were away for big chunks (Anthony Geary, Justin Hartley, Gina Tognoni and Kirsten Storms to name a few) don’t warrant that same consideration.

    I would consider Chrishell Stause a supporting player in Lauren Koslow’s storyline.  It seemed like Jordan was just loafing around and fretting most of the time while Kate was the person driving all the action in that storyline.  She seemed like a lead to me there as well as in the story with Nick’s disappearance and reappearance during the first part of the year, even though she did play more of a supporting role in the DiMera takeover story.  

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    Daniel Montgomery
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    #428252

    Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I wish I could put all your ideas into practice, but since I’ll be counting these ballots by hand as I usually do, this year’s voting will be similar to what we did two years ago, which was the last time there were only four eligible soaps on the air.

    I’ll get the nomination process started tonight. Stay tuned! 🙂

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    robbalto
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    #428253

    Perhaps the best way to handle category placement is to simply discuss the actors in question. I am working on my nominations and have several questions in terms of placement. I am considering these actors, but placement in lead vs supporting may determine if they make my ballot. The actors in question:

    Tyler Christopher: He submitted as Lead, so should we just go with that?

    Scott Clifton: I definitely think he belongs in Lead. But didn’t he submit in supporting?

    Kirsten Storms: Could go either way for me, but I am thinking Lead.

    Jen Lilley: I’m thinking supporting, at least for 2014.

    (Note: I’m going with Lead for Ari Zucker, given previous discussions regarding her placement.) 

    Anyone have any input regarding the placement of these performers? 

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    EmmyLoser
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    #428254

    Here’s what my two cents on them would be, for what that’s worth.  This won’t exactly line up with my own personal placements above, as now I’m thinking of the group consensus.

    Christopher:  I’d say he’s borderline enough that I wouldn’t contradict his own placement one way or the other.  So I am just thinking of him as lead for our purposes here as well. 

    Clifton:  He did submit supporting, but I feel he’s unquestionably a lead. 

    Storms:  I still think of her as supporting, but it seems like the people who feel more strongly about her, and frankly saw more of her 2014 work than I did, are thinking of her as a lead, so that may be a better placement.

    Lilley:  Yes, I also think she belongs in supporting for 2014.

    It did seem like lead was the consensus for Zucker, and I’m happy with that.  Can I ask about a few others while we’re on the subject?  

    Eric Martsolf, Lauren Koslow and Daniel Cosgrove: All three of these are people I thought of as leads (or borderline leads), but it seems the general consensus seems to be that Cosgrove and Koslow are supporting, and Martsolf is a little more up in the air?

    Michelle Stafford:  I was thinking of her in supporting, but it seems like a lot of others are thinking of her in lead? 

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    FreemanGriffin
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    #428255

    I only voted for tthree of the actors you asked about, Emmyloser – I placed Kirsten Storms in 3rd for LEAD actress; Tyler Christopher in 3rd place for LEAD actor; and Lauren Koslow in 3rd for SUPPORTING actress.

    I decided to place Eileen Davidson (2nd place) in the Guest/Limited Performances category…. the only actor I placed in two different categories was Freddie Smith (2nd place) for Supporting Actor AND Younger Actor.

    I agree with you about Scott Clifton, he is definitely a lead. Disagree about Arianne Zucker, who I considered Supporting in 2014. (Same with Martsolf and Cosgrove).

    Well… that’s my two cents! (: 

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    robbalto
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    #428256

    Eric Martsolf is definitely borderline, but I have him in supporting. I see Lauren Koslow in the supporting category as well. Although Daniel Cosgrove submitted in Lead, I think of him as supporting also. Michelle Stafford is a bit trickier. In terms of air time, a case can definitely be made for placement in Lead. On the other hand, when I consider the character’s overall relation to GH’s big picture, I would place her in supporting. So, EmmyLoser, to sum it all up, I would place all four actors in supporting.

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    EmmyLoser
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    #428257

    Thanks for the feedback, guys.  It’s helpful.  As tempted as I might be to put Eileen Davidson into the Guest/Limited performer category, because it would make composing my ballot a little easier, I think I’ll have to think of her in supporting.  Narrowing down to three picks per category will be tough!

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