Academy rules for category confusion

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  • pcarron
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    #203199

    Here are the official academy nomination rules in regards to lead/supporting performances:

    3) The determination as to whether a role is a leading or supporting role shall be made individually by members of the branch at the time of balloting.

    4. The leading role and supporting role categories will be tabulated simultaneously. If any performance should receive votes in both categories, the achievement shall be placed only on the ballot in that category in which, during the tabulation process, it first receives the required number of votes to be
    nominated. In the event that the performance receives the numbers of votes required to be nominated in both categories simultaneously, the achievement shall be placed only on the ballot in that category in which it receives the greater percentage of the total votes.
    5. In the event that two achievements by an actor or actress receive sufficient votes to be nominated in the same category, only one shall be nominated using the preferential tabulation process and such other allied procedures as may be necessary to achieve that result.

    What exactly does this mean in the case of performances like Rooney Mara’s in Carol or Alicia Vikander’s in The Danish Girl that are being considered lead by some and supporting by others?  If, for example Rooney’s performance was listed on enough ballots to be JUST outside the top 5 in BOTH the lead and supporting categories, she would just miss out completely?  Or can ballots from the category (supporting, for example) that received fewer votes be counted toward the other (lead) for the same performance if it received more votes? 

    It doesn’t seem right for a performance to miss out on a nom just because the Academy doesn’t determine whether it’s lead or supporting.

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    Riley
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    #203201

    If they had just campaigned in the category where the performance belonged, they would not be in that mess.

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    podre
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    #203202

    4. The leading role and supporting role categories will be tabulated simultaneously. If any performance should receive votes in both categories, the achievement shall be placed only on the ballot in that category in which, during the tabulation process, it first receives the required number of votes to be
    nominated. In the event that the performance receives the numbers of votes required to be nominated in both categories simultaneously, the achievement shall be placed only on the ballot in that category in which it receives the greater percentage of the total votes.

    I have problems with rule 4.

    If a performance does not receive the numbers of votes required to be nominated in both the leading role and supporting role categories, shouldn’t the votes in the leading role category be counted as votes in the supporting role category as well? The rationale is simple, the leading role plays a bigger part than the supporting role in a movie. If a performance is nominated by someone in the supporting role category, it should automatically be considered as nominated in the supporting role category as well. Hence, if a performance does not receive the numbers of vote required to be nominated in both the leading role and supporting role categories, the votes in the leading role category should be added to the votes in the supporting role category to decide if the performance receives the required number of votes to be nominated in the supporting category.

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    Baby Clyde
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    #203203

    That would be utterly ridiculous.

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    Sasha
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    #203204

    For fuck’s sake stop calling it confusion! It has nothing to do with confusion, it’s fucking cheating. CHEATING. CHEATING! IT’S CATEGORY FRAUD!!!

    Someone has counted screentime of Mara and Blanchett and Mara has 20% more screentime than Blanchett. We’re dealing here with the biggest category fraud ever. If Academy goes with it it’s gonna look beyond ridiculous. 

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    Riley
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    #203205

    Maybe the supporting category is stronger than leading one year.

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    pcarron
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    #203206

    Whether a role is truly leading or supporting or there’s more competition in one category of the other, I’m really just wondering what the rules are and what happens with the votes in the situation.

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    Anonymous
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    #203207

    “If they had just campaigned it in the category where the performance belonged, they would not be in that mess.”

    Well there are certainly examples of people scoring noms/wins in a category that many feel was not where they belonged, so it’s subjective. 
    Or when people feel a performance was placed in the right category and that was why they were snubbed – i.e. Julianne Moore in The Kids Are All Right. 

    And I kinda doubt Mara would be the biggest fraud “EVER.” Like, Hailee Steinfeld seemed more lead a few years ago. 

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    Riley
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    #203208

    Yes, but in this case, people are concerned about votes being split between lead and supporting for Mara and Vikander.  If the studios had just campaigned them both in lead, nobody would vote for them in supporting.

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    Anonymous
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    #203209

    Well, I think it’s more likely that Vikander
    A) gets nominated in supporting regardless, than that
    B) if she were campaigned in lead all along, she’d get a lead nom.

    Personally. I could be wrong.

    And for both, the chances of winning supporting are greater than zero, while the chances of winning lead regardless of campaigning is approximately zero. 

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    Eddy Q
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    #203210

    ^ I hope this is intended as (unfortunately accurate) dispassionate analysis rather than as defense of their campaign strategies. We don’t want any more encouragement of category fraud.

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    Jake
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    #203211

    The funniest thing is that leading contenders all underwhelm and Mara/Vikander both should have relatively no trouble to get Best Actress nominations. It happened at the Globes, it would happen at SAGs over Mirren and Silverman and it would happen at Critics Choice Award over Jennifer Lawrence with Theron/Rampling fighting for 6th spot.

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    Jake
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    #203212

    [quote=”PhilipCarron”]4. The leading role and supporting role categories will be tabulated simultaneously. If any performance should receive votes in both categories, the achievement shall be placed only on the ballot in that category in which, during the tabulation process, it first receives the required number of votes to be
    nominated. In the event that the performance receives the numbers of votes required to be nominated in both categories simultaneously, the achievement shall be placed only on the ballot in that category in which it receives the greater percentage of the total votes.

    I have problems with rule 4.

    If a performance does not receive the numbers of votes required to be nominated in both the leading role and supporting role categories, shouldn’t the votes in the leading role category be counted as votes in the supporting role category as well? The rationale is simple, the leading role plays a bigger part than the supporting role in a movie. If a performance is nominated by someone in the supporting role category, it should automatically be considered as nominated in the supporting role category as well. Hence, if a performance does not receive the numbers of vote required to be nominated in both the leading role and supporting role categories, the votes in the leading role category should be added to the votes in the supporting role category to decide if the performance receives the required number of votes to be nominated in the supporting category.

    [/quote]

    That makes no sense. Categories are counted separately. If the same performance is 6th for Best Actress and 6th for Best Supporting Actress, then it’s not nominated. Pure and simple math. 

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    pcarron
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    #203213

    A few things: can we honestly expect the studios to be the ones to campaign performances in the correct categories on their own? This seems like the least likely scenario. For better or worse, the studios will campaign a performance in the category they perceive as the most likely to yield a nomination regardless of any other factors including whether the performance actually belongs in the category.

    As rule 3 states: “The determination as to whether a role is a leading or supporting role shall be made individually by members of the branch at the time of balloting.” So according to the Academy, there are no guidelines clarifying what should distinguish a lead and a supporting role.

    Do you think the Academy needs to add a rule that prevents studios from campaigning performances in specific categories, instead requiring them to just campaign for the performance in general? And leave it up to individual members to interpret which category a performance falls in to as the current rule states?

    Or should the rule be changed to reflect how the Golden Globes function, where each performance is pre-determined to be eligible in a single certain category? The HFPA made sure that, at least in the cases of Mara and Vikander this year, there was no “category fraud” or vote splitting between categories.

    I have a few other questions and comments but this post is long enough already so I’ll save them haha.

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    Anonymous
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    #203214

    ^ I hope this is intended as (unfortunately accurate) dispassionate analysis rather than as defense of their campaign strategies. We don’t want any more encouragement of category fraud.

    Well, personally I agree that Mara is at the very least as Lead as Blanchett, and I don’t plan to ever watch Danish Girl but I’ll trust those who say Vikander is too. So I do think it’s unfair.
    But…if I were Mara or Vikander, I too would want to maximize my chances of a win and/or nom.

    But sometimes attempted fraud knocks you out altogether, a la Scarlett for Lost in Translation, though I wish that would have happened to an actress I like less than the talented ScarJo. I certainly like Mara and Vikander less…

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