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Call Me By Your Name vs Brokeback. Mountain.

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  • VanRoberts
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    #1202462525

    Unfortunately Brokeback Mountain became a punchline shortly after it lost best picture. Mention it to anyone and watch the jokes that follow. It’s a shame really.

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    Kwame
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    #1202462527

    I honestly don’t get the point of things like this. Why the need to pit them against each other when, like others have said, they are different stories? I see it happen a lot with “black” movies too. It baffles me. Why can’t you just be happy that more and more of these stories are being told? It doesn’t have to be a competition.

    That said, the goodbye scene in Weekend hit me harder than the one in CMBYN but I do love both movies. Oh and The Danish Girl is far from incredible, Tom Hooper winning that Oscar over Fincher will always be a joke.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Kwame.
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    manalemel
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    #1202462553

    What are the glaring issues with CMBYN. I heard it was a bit slow and a bit too long. I don’t agree with either. The relationship between Elio and Oliver takes some time and when they finally kiss and make love we are so ready and it is so sexy. I don’t think 2 hours is too long for a movie. I was not bored for one second

    Well, that’s part of my issue with CMBYN: it’s not that it’s badly made or that the issues are “glaring” (though some are to me, don’t misunderstand).  It’s that it’s a perfectly well-made movie disguised somehow by the critical fanbase as a relevatory call to arms of sorts for, like, the whole world.

    I just don’t see that.  It’s a tame, gorgeously shot and scored and curated summer portal into a young man’s life, and people are like a jizzy peach away from naming it Elio’s Way.  Maybe he should have dipped his peach in tea?

    Like, Guadagnino barely even gives us sweat and it’s supposed to be summer.  All those wonderful close-ups and it all still feels very safe and orchestrated, cummy chests included.  It’s so tidy and easy to pack, just like a wonderful stay at a villa where we don’t have to worry about the messes we leave behind, IF we leave any mess behind at all.

    Also, I take issue with every review (every review I’ve read, and I’ve read plenty, but do correct me if I’m wrong, guys) bringing up Chalamet’s final close-up; it’s an immense injustice to him as an actor because it insinuates, even without meaning to, that THAT is the crux of his talent, and that THAT is what he has to live up to now, somehow.  It’s such a beautifully manipulative way for Guadagnino to underscore the main bullet points, that it also oversells the monologue the father has to give right before.  The film turns from relatively Antonioni-lite cinema, to this odd thesis on love that, for me, didn’t ruminate enough on it in a convincing manner to earn it.

    Props to Chalamet, of course; it’s not my favorite performance of the year, and he has limitations still given his age and the fact he has a lot of living left to do, but when he GETS it, he fucking gets it.  He’d make my Top 5 just about any year.  Not that that matters, as I’m well aware Gold Derby is the Church of Chalamet.  Haha!

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    Icky
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    #1202462825

    I will admit that the sermonizing I’ve seen here and some other places over what is essentially a visually pretty movie with some nice scenes but what is also something that feels tame, tidy, old-fashioned and almost half-baked has turned me off the film quickly despite its strengths.

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    Icky
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    #1202466327

    BM is more about repression and characters not accepting their homosexuality or struggling with it. CMBYN is more a game of seduction. The characters embrace their feelings very easily. The main point being that there are no barriers on who you fall in love with.

    I want to make a quick comment on one slightly disturbing aspect of the lgbtq “movement”. Most people (even most bi-identifying and/or bi-behaving people, or people who have some fluidity in their orientation) don’t truly have the ability to develop substantial and sustained romantic love, desire, passion and satisfaction with someone outside of one gender, or there are contradictions within their orientation. The people (particularly the men) who can have all those things with either a man or woman represents a rather small population of people. This whole “no barriers” and being “open-minded” thing, I get where it’s coming from. But it’s not a reality for most. I’ve also come to realize that there’s frequently, though of course not always, a tinge of internalized homophobia, hetero worship, misandry, misogyny, paraphilia, megalomania and/or narcissism that’s connected to these types of comments.

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    manalemel
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    #1202466401

    Besides, E & O DON’T embrace their feelings very easily at all.  So making that comparison is useless from a character standpoint, and not just an LGBTQ++++++etc. standpoint.

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    nevkm
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    #1202466405

    BM is more about repression and characters not accepting their homosexuality or struggling with it. CMBYN is more a game of seduction. The characters embrace their feelings very easily. The main point being that there are no barriers on who you fall in love with.

    I want to make a quick comment on one slightly disturbing aspect of the lgbtq “movement”. Most people (even most bi-identifying and/or bi-behaving people, or people who have some fluidity in their orientation) don’t truly have the ability to develop substantial and sustained romantic love, desire, passion and satisfaction with someone outside of one gender, or there are contradictions within their orientation. The people (particularly the men) who can have all those things with either a man or woman represents a rather small population of people. This whole “no barriers” and being “open-minded” thing, I get where it’s coming from. But it’s not a reality for most. I’ve also come to realize that there’s frequently, though of course not always, a tinge of internalized homophobia, hetero worship, misandry, misogyny, paraphilia, megalomania and/or narcissism that’s connected to these types of comments.

    So according to you I’m a homophobe and  a misogynyst? It’s nice to discover new things about myself.  Tell me more.

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    AmnistY21
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    #1202466412

    BM is more about repression and characters not accepting their homosexuality or struggling with it. CMBYN is more a game of seduction. The characters embrace their feelings very easily. The main point being that there are no barriers on who you fall in love with.

    I want to make a quick comment on one slightly disturbing aspect of the lgbtq “movement”. Most people (even most bi-identifying and/or bi-behaving people, or people who have some fluidity in their orientation) don’t truly have the ability to develop substantial and sustained romantic love, desire, passion and satisfaction with someone outside of one gender, or there are contradictions within their orientation. The people (particularly the men) who can have all those things with either a man or woman represents a rather small population of people. This whole “no barriers” and being “open-minded” thing, I get where it’s coming from. But it’s not a reality for most. I’ve also come to realize that there’s frequently, though of course not always, a tinge of internalized homophobia, hetero worship, misandry, misogyny, paraphilia, megalomania and/or narcissism that’s connected to these types of comments.

    I’m a Psychology Major and this is bullshit. Never read something so stupid and ignorant in my life.

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    Icky
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    #1202466423

    I knew what I said would be somewhat controversial in this crowd (anything connected to being critical of this film will get boos here, especially with all these new CMBYN fanboys on this board. Although, what I said isn’t really a criticism of the film but ideology). I don’t recall saying that being able to experience genuine and long-standing romantic and sexual satisfaction with either a man or woman isn’t possible. I said it’s not possible for most people, especially men, and we should stop pretending that it is. My sister lived a satisfied lesbian “lifestyle” for five years. I was perfectly fine only being with women until my mid-20’s. Both we both had contradictions within our orientation. And ultimately, I was gay-leaning and she was straight-leaning.

    I have some bisexuality and fluidity in my orientation, and I as well was a psychology and sociology major, and I’m someone who has been around queer people my whole life. I’ve definitely picked up certain patterns.

    Focusing on being “open-minded” and “free” and “living with barriers” instead of focusing on people actually understanding the dimensions and degrees of who they are and understanding their instincts usually just leads to a bunch of nonsense. In fact, that ideology is the antithesis of the principal of psychology. And yes, pushing that over self-knowledge and self-actualization usually does hint towards one of those things I mentioned or being a Pollyanna.

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    lorelei lor
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    #1202466448

    I knew what I said would be somewhat controversial in this crowd (anything connected to being critical of this film will get boos here, especially with all these new CMBYN fanboys on this board. Although, what I said isn’t really a criticism of the film but ideology). I don’t recall saying that being able to experience genuine and long-standing romantic and sexual satisfaction with either a man or woman isn’t possible. I said it’s not possible for most people, especially men, and we should stop pretending that it is. My sister lived a satisfied lesbian “lifestyle” for five years. I was perfectly fine only being with women until my mid-20’s. Both we both had contradictions within our orientation. And ultimately, I was gay-leaning and she was straight-leaning. I have some bisexuality and fluidity in my orientation, and I as well was a psychology and sociology major, and I’m someone who has been around queer people my whole life. I’ve definitely picked up certain patterns. Focusing on being “open-minded” and “free” and “living with barriers” instead of focusing on people actually understanding the dimensions and degrees of who they are and understanding their instincts usually just leads to a bunch of nonsense. In fact, that ideology is the antithesis of the principal of psychology. And yes, pushing that over self-knowledge and self-actualization usually does hint towards one of those things I mentioned or being a Pollyanna.

    Please not the “crowd” excuse, it’s got nothing to do with that. It’s just you saying stupid things. If you’re a psychology Major (I doubt it) then you should be ashamed. A clinical psychologist must consider a broad range of information before making a profile or giving a diagnosis. Calling people homophobes, misogynists, hetero worshipers, misandrists, megalomaniacs(really?), narcissists (wtf??) because they are open-minded or because they refuse to see sexuality in boxes is beyond irresponsible, inappropriate and ludicrous.

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    Icky
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    #1202466453

    When I gave off that list I was talking from the perspective of “queer” people. Cis gender heteros (or straight-leaning cis people) won’t comprehend most of what I’m saying or they simply don’t fit into those categories when they express those types of perspectives.

    I am open-minded. I simply support self-truth, self-understanding, self-respect, self-comfort and mental health above all else. Getting to a place where you completely understand all the aspects of yourself, of your orientation, sense of gender and your instincts, is very important for queer people. I know it was hell living in a state of confusion and frustration and depression, and I know it was for many of the people in my life (a couple of which committed suicide). The reality is is that a lot of us have been through a ton of sh*t, have a lot of things going on in our heads and have a lot of things to confront. I’m just over the Polly-Anna sayings and cliches and sentimentality that disguise themselves as “progress”. That doesn’t ultimately help people that actually need it. Many of us could use some legit help, a reality check and some self-education, not cute, pretty and “safe” movies, as good as some of those movies may be in their own regard.

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    Noah Arlington
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    #1202466460

    CMBYN because no one dies at the end

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    nevkm
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    #1202466484

    When I gave off that list I was talking from the perspective of “queer” people. Cis gender heteros (or straight-leaning cis people) won’t comprehend most of what I’m saying or they simply don’t fit into those categories when they express those types of perspectives. I am open-minded.

    The whole point of the queer theory is that dichotomies/binaries are flawed and they must be deconstructed because they are making bisexuality or sexual fluidity invisible and there can be a great deal of biphobia when everything is polarised as either gay or straight. Sexual identity is fluid and transformative, like all the other identities. Luca Guadagnino and Aciman are big fans of Judith Butler and I highly recommend you to read her books. Maybe you’ll understand what they were trying to do.

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    Mason Desantis
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    #1202466508

    Most people (even most bi-identifying and/or bi-behaving people, or people who have some fluidity in their orientation) don’t truly have the ability to develop substantial and sustained romantic love, desire, passion and satisfaction with someone outside of one gender, or there are contradictions within their orientation.

    Why don’t you tell me more about my sexuality?

     

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    Icky
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    #1202466523

    I have to clarify something again: I wasn’t talking about all queer people. I’m talking about queer people who emphasize things like being “open-minded” or “living with barriers” over self-understanding, self-acknowledgement, self-respect and tackling difficult internal issues.

    I actually try really hard not to ever talk about female sexuality. I did feel as if I had enough experience to give my opinion on that one thing considering I’ve known (and dated) a bunch of bi identifying or bi behaving women. But yes, men and women are generally different creatures and that includes orientation. However, it is funny that many women pipe up with decisive opinions when it comes to male sexuality. This thread isn’t an example of that thankfully.

    I realize that I am cynical. But I’ve just experienced a lot, have had a ton of really insightful convos throughout the years, have had probably too much education and have peeped out certain patterns, especially with people in my life who have had certain struggles or suffered from mental illnesses. The only point I was initially trying to make is that we’re living in a society where everyone wants to talk about “freedom” and “acceptance” while things like self-respect, self-truth, mental health and developing a stable and non-frayed ego are often seen as secondary.

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