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January 13, 2018 at 1:56 pm #1202466526
I love getting lessons on queer theory by young twentysomethings infatuated with one of the most reductive and regressive queer characters we’ve seen in cinema recently.January 13, 2018 at 2:08 pm #1202466537
I don’t align myself with agenda. But I’m really not saying anything that’s some “secret knowledge” or that’s beating up on queer folks. Read up on the psychology and sociology of orientation. Read up on the psychological and sociological issues that queers are more likely to develop. Actually read some real sh*t on homosexuality, sense of gender, fluidity, etc. Hell, listen to St Vincent’s music. Nothing I’ve said is “out there”, though it may be cynical and make some uncomfortable. Focusing on how terrible the “cis hetero world” is not be all of our problems.January 13, 2018 at 2:16 pm #1202466542
You want some real shit? Stop reading books and pay attention to some of the people on this thread who are gay or bi and don’t agree with you.January 13, 2018 at 2:22 pm #1202466547
I actually didn’t see any disagreeing, just anger. I didn’t see anyone picking apart anything that I’ve said, just dismissing it. And I don’t see how someone can disagree that queer people are more likely to suffer from certain psychological issues, are more likely to have certain traumas to battle through or can disagree that we need to emphasize mental health, self-understanding, self-esteem, self-respect and self-comfort more instead of being dependent on cute sayings.January 13, 2018 at 2:31 pm #1202466551
Stop repeating words like self-understanding, self-respect and self-comfort when you don’t mean them. You weren’t talking about that in your posts and you’re not fooling anyone. And almost everyone disagrees with you, don’t be delusional.January 13, 2018 at 2:46 pm #1202466558
I mean exactly what I type. I’m obviously not a pussy-footer. And once again, I’m not seeing any real disagreements in any of these responses. Just people being mad for some reason or telling me I’m wrong, though no one is making any type of specifics. And no one is actually legitimately engaging, just dismissing.
The catalyst of these posts come from my opinion that the “queer movement” (especially when it comes to media and entertainment) has become too driven by political and social agenda, narcissism, sentimentality, sensationalism and easy catchphrases, and there’s not enough emphasis on tackling real and complicated things. The fact that a movie this basic and safe (though I still say it’s good) receives this much amount of praise and is seen as “revolutionary” by some highlights that point. If you disagree with that particular bit that’s fine. But there’s a lot out there who don’t.January 13, 2018 at 3:46 pm #1202466598
I don’t disagree with you, dude; we don’t align 100%, but enough that a conversation about these topics would yield fruitful dialogue. It’s possible that because, as you say, you’re not a “pussy-footer” (which I’m surprised no one’s called you out on, since I’m sure someone would have found it offensive, due to the use of ‘pussy’, denoting that females are weaker or more tentative than men; that’s the kind of world we live in now, and I’m fully prepped for the ire coming my way now), your language comes off as more extreme than it really is.
It’s unfortunate that you (although credit to you for realizing this beforehand and going ahead anyway) just lit a powder keg without any chance of getting out alive.
This fandom is impossible; even in other forums I frequent, CMBYN fans show up as soon as a thread relevant to the movie is there to spout endless nothings about it and laurel an ever-increasing amount of empty “greatest ever” praise, but when approached for dialogue or discussion, there’s almost never a single thing to say except as a rebuke or to refute what “the other side” is saying/writing.
Even the thread here on who had read the book just turned into a pseudo-“Elio is too neurotic and borderline crazy in the book” or a “eh, the book bored me, but the movie was this astonishing work of art that transcends barriers and makes love a universal, transcendental thing, and gosh, the ending just destroyed me, and I’m still weeping, and I can’t get over it, and I need to see it 14 times, and, and, and!”
I have never in my decades of film-watching seen anything like it.
And I’m almost certain I never will again.
By the way, Ivory won adapted screenplay at the Critics Choice, and yet, I find that award is almost always given to the TRANSLATION of the script to the screen, which for me isn’t even remotely the same thing; Ivory’s script is pretty marred with errors (he even copies the same voice-over TWICE), bulky passages, and clunky additions/deletions. But they gave it to him because he’s Ivory, and it’s CMBYN, and who cares.
No one might care about what you’re saying, but I find truth in a lot of it, regardless if anyone else can.
Cheers!January 13, 2018 at 3:47 pm #1202466599
Isn’t the fact that the movie is “basic” and “safe” what makes it “revolutionary”?
I mean, an overwhelming number of Oscar-nominated LGBTQ roles involve the characters dying, most often of AIDS, suicide, or a hate crime. Nominating performances like those in Carol or Call Me By Your Name means that we’re finally seeing the industry move beyond the pernicious and problematic “bury your gays” trope.
Minority communities deserve “basic” prestige period pieces and shitty romcoms and action blockbusters and animated musicals and coming of age stories and teen comedies and biopics and so forth. That’s part of what “equal representation” entails. The LGBTQ community is slowly getting there. Future projects need to be more inclusive of people outside the cis/white labels, but I have faith we’ll get there soon.
Also, “there’s not enough emphasis on tackling real and complicated things” and “the queer movement has become too driven by political and social agenda” seem like ENTIRELY conflicting opinions. News flash: political and social issues are real and complicated things, and vice versa.
January 13, 2018 at 4:33 pm #1202466620
- This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by TheRedBoy.
Your analogy isn’t all that, you know. You can still tackle “important” things without having a political or social agenda; sometimes it’s just for the work itself, for the individual’s sake. But, you know, splitting hairs.
Also, that’s not the problem (re: CMBYN being “basic” the reason it’s so acclaimed); people legitimately believe it’s somehow changed the cinematic landscape in some way, and that’s essentially what I’m taking those people to task for, albeit in a less “chewing-you-out” way. There isn’t a single strand in CMBYN that Guadagnino didn’t pluck from somewhere else (within his own past works, even), so it boggles my mind how a community can so willingly blind themselves to that alone, alongside everything else they’re blinding themselves to, in order to have their piece of sky in Elio and Oliver’s romance.
The story would be just as beautiful and wonderful without needing to justify its Eden, or its downright pedestrian manipulation of the audiences’ thirst and hunger for something “like” this, and then deliver a product masquerading as something much greater than it’s even trying to be.
Why do I have to cut a film slack for not being all that because not being all that shows how far we’ve come in queer cinema? What? Get out of here with that, please; no fucking wonder 2017 has turned out to be one of the dullest years in cinema that I can remember. We gravitate towards the middle anymore, and we’re going to find ourselves in a soup of our own trope-eating society until there’s nothing left but the society itself.
Hopefully, to eat itself.
Haha! Anyway… Carry on.January 13, 2018 at 5:14 pm #1202466639
Oh well poor u guys will just have to cry yourself to sleep when this movie wins adapted screenplay lol.January 13, 2018 at 5:20 pm #1202466640
Haha, as if THAT’S the great travesty of the Oscars?
I think we’ll all be juuuust fine; lots of practice in watching Academy members fuck it all up, Honey! 🙂
Though, unrelated: I would DIE to see Logan get nominated in the category come nomination morning!January 13, 2018 at 5:23 pm #1202466641
Haha, as if THAT’S the great travesty of the Oscars? I think we’ll all be juuuust fine; lots of practice in watching Academy members fuck it all up, Honey! ???? Though, unrelated: I would DIE to see Logan get nominated in the category come nomination morning!
it will be the greatest travesty to some of u guys :’(. But oh well better luck next time.January 13, 2018 at 7:26 pm #1202466680
The time of the film was mid 80s. The book was written in 2007. The aura of love and acceptance is so 2017. I wonder why Luca, Ivory and Aichman too it back to the 80s it sure worked. Maybe it was Europe. Maybe we here in the USA took so long to catch up?January 13, 2018 at 8:12 pm #1202466695
Brokeback Mountain by a mile. Everything in it (directing, acting, story) is amazing. Losing Best Picture to Crash might be the biggest Oscar travesty in the last 20 years.
Call Me By Your Name is a nice movie, but the only thing I found oscar worthy about it was Chalamet. (Adapted Screenplay is extremely weak this year so I don’t care who wins)