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Category Frauds – The Lead Categories

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  • RobertPius
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    #1202078334

    Michael Caine has spoken about how he felt kind of insulted with his Hannah and Her Sisters nomination in supporting. He felt it was a step down.

    He came to regret the decision not to go. When he won his second Oscar he joked in his speech (to Tom Cruise) about how a supporting nomination will bring your price down.

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    Emmyfan
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    #1202078344

    An Oscar is an Oscar. When an Oscar winning actor is introduced, they do not say Supporting Actor Oscar winner or Lead Actor Oscar winner – they say Oscar winner or Academy Award winner.

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    LaChienne
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    #1202078348

    Yeah, I don’t really care if my fav gets an Oscar for lead or supporting. I just need to see them with an award in hand and my feelings validated. I think it’s the minority who views all acting awards as equals; leads always seem to be remembered and celebrated over supporting and they’re at the nail-biting end of the night for a reason. But as I said, I personally don’t care. Javier Bardem got supporting for one of my personal most memorable characters, a role that the movie wouldn’t exist without, and it’s gonna shine just as nice next to his wife’s.

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    Andrew Carden
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    #1202078829

    Caine got his Lead wish for Hannah and Her Sisters at BAFTA, losing to Bob Hoskins for Mona Lisa. No way would he have defeated Paul Newman at the Oscars that year.

    OSCAR FLASHBACK: 20 Years of Streep (1988) – A Cry in the Dark

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    SHT L
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    #1202078894

    I agree with jasonface’s list aside from Frances McDormand in Fargo — she was unarguably lead IMO.

    Fargo would be the same movie without her character’s involvement.

    Absolutely disagree. McDormand’s Marge is literally the heart and one shining light in a film full of excellent but dark, if at times hilarious, characters. The movie would not have nearly the same impact without Marge and McDormand played her to perfection.

     

    Michael Caine has spoken about how he felt kind of insulted with his Hannah and Her Sisters nomination in supporting. He felt it was a step down. He came to regret the decision not to go. When he won his second Oscar he joked in his speech (to Tom Cruise) about how a supporting nomination will bring your price down.

    That’s so crazy. I mean he actually thought he was the lead actor in that film for that role? This role was substantive and important, but it was just as big and important as all of the other big characters’ roles in that film, such as the roles played by Dianne Wiest, Barbara Hershey, and Woody Allen. Ironically, Hannah played by Mia Farrow had the smallest role out of the main cast I felt, but then Allen/Farrow films tend to go back-and-forth between giving Farrow a sizable role and a smaller role during that period.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  SHT L.
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    Andrew Carden
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    #1202079092

    If I’m not mistaken, both Allen and Farrow were campaigned Lead for Hannah.

    OSCAR FLASHBACK: 20 Years of Streep (1988) – A Cry in the Dark

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    aahoto-II
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    #1202079686

    The reality is lead acting categories are considered the major prizes of the night along with director and picture.

    True. And to people that act like it doesn’t really matter okay then why did goddess Cate Blanchett need one for Best Actress? She had one for Best Supporting Actress. But why was she owed a Lead one? Just because of Gwyneth Paltrow? Okay, well you got one for Supporting. They say “It doesn’t make a difference. An Oscar is an Oscar.” Well it mattered then. And now why does Judi Dench need one? Why did Kevin Spacey? Why did Jessica Lange? Because there’s just more prestige to a Leading Oscar.

    I don’t think there was an argument that Blanchett “needed” an Oscar for Best Actress. I doubt she took the role in Blue Jasmine for the sole purpose of winning an Oscar, and I doubt many people voted for her solely for the reason she was eligible in the lead category and that she desperately “needed” a lead Oscar. She won because she was the best that year. The same thing applies to your other examples, perhaps with the exception of Jessica Lange, although it was a weak year overall. I think people are more interested in Judi Dench having 2 Oscars, not necessarily winning a lead. An Oscar is an Oscar.

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    jasonface
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    I don’t think there was an argument that Blanchett “needed” an Oscar for Best Actress. I doubt she took the role in Blue Jasmine for the sole purpose of winning an Oscar, and I doubt many people voted for her solely for the reason she was eligible in the lead category and that she desperately “needed” a lead Oscar. She won because she was the best that year. The same thing applies to your other examples, perhaps with the exception of Jessica Lange, although it was a weak year overall. I think people are more interested in Judi Dench having 2 Oscars, not necessarily winning a lead. An Oscar is an Oscar.

    No, I don’t think Blanchett was setting out to get a lead Oscar, but from the moment we knew she had taken that role, it was pretty set in stone that she’d be our winner. Just like when people learned Julianne Moore had won Best Actress at Cannes (albeit for Maps to the Stars), from that point on, it was her year to win. And when the more awards friendly Still Alice came around, that was even better for her and nobody even considered anyone else to win.

    It was just one of those moments where, with nothing seen, Moore was already our winner and the same happened with Blanchett the year before ..because she seemingly deserved a lead Oscar. Of course, nobody else deserved it but Blanchett that year (although Exarchopoulos would be my personal pick), but I really do believe many actors, not all, view lead as a more prestigious category.

    I mean, if you have seen Feud, neither one of those women wanted to be demoted to supporting because, regardless that they were both lead in What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?, they certainly felt it was beneath them, that they are generally leading actors, and I believe that sentiment carries over for some actors today. This is also contributes to why it was/is so important for a black woman to win a leading Oscar because supporting can be viewed as secondary. And so many black women had to settle for secondary year after year while always being ignored for one of the night’s top prizes alongside Best Director and Picture. An Oscar may be an Oscar to some, but not to all.

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    M
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    #1202080121

    True. And to people that act like it doesn’t really matter okay then why did goddess Cate Blanchett need one for Best Actress? She had one for Best Supporting Actress. But why was she owed a Lead one? Just because of Gwyneth Paltrow? Okay, well you got one for Supporting. They say “It doesn’t make a difference. An Oscar is an Oscar.” Well it mattered then. And now why does Judi Dench need one? Why did Kevin Spacey? Why did Jessica Lange? Because there’s just more prestige to a Leading Oscar.

    I always felt Blanchett’s second Oscar was an inevitability in Best Actress. When many felt she was a shoe-in for a follow-up win in supporting I believed the actors knew she wasn’t some minor character actress but a leading lady who’d anchor movies as long as she was allowed. Because he talent was equivalent to greats who came before her.

    I’m not sentimental about Dench. Chastain and Bening are greater priorities for first Oscar wins in Best Actress. And Michelle Pfeiffer needs to win a competitive prize in supporting right now. As a Kathy Bates Stan I resent her inability to lock down a sophomore nomination in the premium category she won for. But I so desperately want her to win a second I’m totally Zen about her getting it in supporting. She’ll join the legacy of Helen Hayes and Maggie Smith. Those who won Best Actress first then followed with Supporting Actress wins. Bergman had two Best Actress wins prior to her third in Supporting hence not using her as a reference since she and Streep mirror with respect to win statistics.

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    jasonface
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    #1202080134

    I always felt Blanchett’s second Oscar was an inevitability in Best Actress. When many felt she was a shoe-in for a follow-up win in supporting I believed the actors knew she wasn’t some minor character actress but a leading lady who’d anchor movies as long as she was allowed. Because he talent was equivalent to greats who came before her.

    I’m not sentimental about Dench. Chastain and Bening are greater priorities for first Oscar wins in Best Actress. And Michelle Pfeiffer needs to win a competitive prize in supporting right now. As a Kathy Bates Stan I resent her inability to lock down a sophomore nomination in the premium category she won for. But I so desperately want her to win a second I’m totally Zen about her getting it in supporting. She’ll join the legacy of Helen Hayes and Maggie Smith. Those who won Best Actress first then followed with Supporting Actress wins. Bergman had two Best Actress wins prior to her third in Supporting hence not using her as a reference since she and Streep mirror with respect to win statistics.

    Right. People definitely consider certain actors to be true leading marquee name stars that deserve lead recognition. And Cate Blanchett is one that “needed” a lead one. Just like Lange, who really wasn’t out of this world win worthy for Blue Sky. That was just like a Julianne Moore/Still Alice win. “Whatever, they need one and this is baity enough to award her now and nothing will look suspicious”.

    I also couldn’t care less about Dench. She’s fine and all but she’s never given a win worthy performance to me before. Mrs. Brown maybe but Helena Bonham Carter is also a wonderful pick. What do people even consider her best performances? Iris? How original. Notes on a Scandal? Lifetime. Philomena? She’s too commanding and smart for that wholesome and giddy character.

    Anyway, yeah this year, I think Bening and Pfeiffer are most in need of some awards. Followed by Watts and sorry to keep going younger here but Mara and Ronan are consistently strong actress each with two great nominations. They’re our only under 35 winner alternatives to Larson, Lawrence, Stone repeats (and I love Dunst but let her rack up a few noms first).

    Side note: I didn’t know you loved Bates so much! Just wondering what your favorite performances of hers are because aside from her three noms and Dolores Claiborne, I never know what to watch to really study her acting. She’s someone I want to see more of.

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    Bee
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    #1202080179

    Dench was phenomenal in Notes on a Scandal and exceptional in Philomena but I’ve never cared for her to win another Oscar. Especially when she has nominations like Chocolat, Iris, and Mrs. Henderson Presents.

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    Bee
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    #1202080180

    True. And to people that act like it doesn’t really matter okay then why did goddess Cate Blanchett need one for Best Actress? She had one for Best Supporting Actress. But why was she owed a Lead one? Just because of Gwyneth Paltrow? Okay, well you got one for Supporting. They say “It doesn’t make a difference. An Oscar is an Oscar.” Well it mattered then. And now why does Judi Dench need one? Why did Kevin Spacey? Why did Jessica Lange? Because there’s just more prestige to a Leading Oscar.

    I always felt Blanchett’s second Oscar was an inevitability in Best Actress. When many felt she was a shoe-in for a follow-up win in supporting I believed the actors knew she wasn’t some minor character actress but a leading lady who’d anchor movies as long as she was allowed. Because he talent was equivalent to greats who came before her. I’m not sentimental about Dench. Chastain and Bening are greater priorities for first Oscar wins in Best Actress. And Michelle Pfeiffer needs to win a competitive prize in supporting right now. As a Kathy Bates Stan I resent her inability to lock down a sophomore nomination in the premium category she won for. But I so desperately want her to win a second I’m totally Zen about her getting it in supporting. She’ll join the legacy of Helen Hayes and Maggie Smith. Those who won Best Actress first then followed with Supporting Actress wins. Bergman had two Best Actress wins prior to her third in Supporting hence not using her as a reference since she and Streep mirror with respect to win statistics.

    Jessica Chastain? I get Bening, but Chastain isn’t overdue. She was robbed of the frontrunner status by a high school performance and I felt bad for her going down with Zero Dark Thirty, but she hasn’t delivered awards worthy work after that to be “overdue”.

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    M
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    #1202080184

    @bee

    Jessica isn’t overdue. But she’s older — early forties, so I’d like her to win Best Actress soon.

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    M
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    #1202080185

    Side note: I didn’t know you loved Bates so much! Just wondering what your favorite performances of hers are because aside from her three noms and Dolores Claiborne, I never know what to watch to really study her acting. She’s someone I want to see more of.

    Fried Green Tomatoes (1991) is my favorite performance of hers. Evelyn Couch is her greatest creation. Also, see Love Liza (2002) where she plays Philip Seymour Hoffman’s mother-in-law. There’s the Diabolique (1995) remake — although no one is doing their best work, certainly entertaining.

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    jasonface
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    #1202080196

    Dench was phenomenal in Notes on a Scandal and exceptional in Philomena but I’ve never cared for her to win another Oscar. Especially when she has nominations like Chocolat, Iris, and Mrs. Henderson Presents.

    Yeah hm that’s what everyone says, and I’ve seen it four times now, because it’s very entertaining, but I can’t get past how much it feels like a movie made for Lifetime. Then the whole closeted lesbian thing was supposed to give her this obsessive, villainess depth but just kind of pops up and rings false to me. Of course she does not give a bad performance, it’s fine, just not better than Cruz, Dern, Gyllenhaal, Watts, and Winslet, who I think was your preference. I just never know where to reward Dench.

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