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What if acting categories weren’t gendered?

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  • Anonymous
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    #213798

    This article made me think: http://qz.com/604300/its-time-to-stop-segregating-oscar-nominees-by-gender/

    I wouldn’t support this because while, yes, it would show how sexist the industry is, it causing fewer actresses to get recognition/awards wouldn’t be so good. I mean, certainly other major awards that don’t split by gender tend to be highly biased towards white males, and complaints haven’t changed that.

    But if this did happen, who would the nominees be? I’m thinking:
    2015 Leonardo DiCaprio
    Brie Larson
    Saoirse Ronan
    Michael Fassbender
    Bryan Cranston

    Sylvester Stallone
    Christian Bale
    Mark Ruffalo
    Alicia Vikander
    Kate Winslet

    Inordinately weak male lineups this year would lead to only slight bias towards male actors.

    2014:  Eddie Redmayne
    Benedict Cumberbatch
    Michael Keaton
    Julianne Moore
    Bradley Cooper

    JK Simmons
    Patricia Arquette
    Edward Norton
    Meryl Streep
    Ethan Hawke

    2013: Matthew McConaughey
    Chiwetel Ejiofor
    Leonardo DiCaprio
    Cate Blanchett
    Sandra Bullock

    Jared Leto
    Michael Fassbender
    Lupita Nyong’o
    Jennifer Lawrence
    Bradley Cooper
     
    2012: Daniel Day-Lewis
    Denzel Washington
    Jennifer Lawrence
    Bradley Cooper
    Hugh Jackman

    Christoph Waltz
    Alan Arkin
    Anne Hathaway
    Robert De Niro
    Tommy Lee Jones

    2011: Jean Dujardin
    George Clooney
    Brad Pitt
    Meryl Streep
    Gary Oldman

    Christopher Plummer
    Viola Davis (I’d think she’d go here given how even in reality many thought she was supporting.)
    Octavia Spencer
    Kenneth Branagh
    Max von Sydow

    2010: Colin Firth
    Jeff Bridges
    Jesse Eisenberg
    James Franco
    Natalie Portman

    Christian Bale
    Geoffrey Rush
    Melissa Leo
    John Hawkes
    Hailee Steinfeld 

    Well, this was fun to think about. Kinda. 

    Reply
    MrGoodWood
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    #213800

    In a perfect world this would be possible. The gender of a performer should not be important.
    But the bias toward male actors would be huge. And even without the bias, there are far more juicy roles for men.
    Still:
    2015
    Cate Blanchett Christian Bale
    Leonardo Di Caprio Rooney Mara
    Michael Fassbender Mark Rylance
    Brie Larson Sylvester Stallone
    Saoirse Ronan Alicia Vikander

    2014
    Eddie Redmayne Patricia Arquette
    Bradley Cooper Ethan Hawke
    Benedict Cumberbatch Edward Norton
    Michael Keaton JK Simmons
    Julianne Moore  Emma Stone

    2013
    Cate Blanchett Barkhad Abdi
    Sandra Bullock Michael Fassbender
    Judi Dench Jennifer Lawrence
    Leonardo DiCaprio Jared Leto
    Matthew McConaughey  Lupita Nyong’o

    2012
    Jessica Chastain Robert De Niro
    Bradley Cooper Sally Field
    Daniel Day Lewis Anne Hathaway
    Hugh Jackman Tommy Lee Jones
    Jennifer Lawrence  Christoph Waltz

    2011
    George Clooney Berenice Bejo
    Viola Davis Jessica Chastain
    Jean Dujardin Nick Nolte
    Meryl Streep Christopher Plummer
    Brad Pitt  Octavia Spencer

    2010
    Annette Bening Christian Bale
    Jeff Bridges Melissa Leo
    Jesse Eisenberg Jeremy Renner
    Colin Firth Geoffrey Rush
    Natalie Portman  Jacki Weaver

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    Eddy Q
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    #213801

    If film and acting awards in general had never existed until now, and the awards were still segregated by gender, people would probably criticise the awards as being sexist. And to be honest, they wouldn’t be wrong. 

    A potential problem in years/decades to come is if non-binary trans folk become more visible on screen (hopefully!) yet they cannot be nominated as either Best Actor or Best Actress because either option would conflict with their gender identity. What to do then? Create a special achievement award for Best Non-Binary Actor? Seems a bit of a ghetto to me. 

    Anyway, if acting awards were not based on gender now, I guess this year’s nominees would look something like this:

    Cate Blanchett
    Leonardo DiCaprio 
    Michael Fassbender
    Brie Larson
    Saoirse Ronan

    Christian Bale
    Rooney Mara
    Mark Rylance
    Alicia Vikander
    Kate Winslet

    So according to this there would actually be more female nominees in both categories, but that would probably be an exception.

    As for past winners in this scenario:

    2014: Moore & Simmons
    2013: Blanchett & Leto
    2012: Day-Lewis & Hathaway
    2011: Streep & Plummer
    2010: Firth & Bale
    2009: Bridges & Mo’Nique
    2008: Winslet & Ledger
    2007: Day-Lewis & Bardem
    2006: Mirren & Hudson
    2005: Hoffman & Clooney
    2004: Foxx & Blanchett
    2003: Theron & Zellweger
    2002: Brody & Zeta-Jones
    2001: Berry & Connelly
    2000: Roberts & Del Toro

    This is assuming the different lineups wouldn’t have resulted in completely different winners.
     

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    Rooney Moore
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    #213802

    Acting branch is probably the most gender balanced branch in the academy. Their representative is a woman.
    You can’t make movies without actressess, whether it’s the role of a supportive wife or a crazy nun.

    That being said, we’d have still seen little bit of male advantage since there are far more great roles for men than for women(esp in lead category) but that gap wouldn’t be that huge. We’d have also seen the examples of sexism and women mainly voting for women and men voting for both men and pretty women lol.

    In the end ”It’s not weight-lifting” 

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    Bradley Weir
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    #213803

    It would be an absolute nightmare. Just imagine #OscarsSoMale

    “Only 2 women in 10 slots”
    “Only 5 women nominated in 2 years”

    Would be terrible. It’s perfect to have a split.

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    Rooney Moore
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    #213804

    But, then, why don’t we have splits for other categories, too, if it’s about equality?
    Why not
    Best Male-Director
    Best Female-Director

    Best Male Writer
    Best Female Writer 

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    Michael Norris
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    #213805

    2015:

    Cate Blanchett
    Leonardo DiCaprio (Winner)
    Michael Fassbender
    Brie Larson
    Saiorse Ronan

    Christian Bale
    Rooney Mara
    Mark Ruffalo
    Mark Rylance
    Alicia Vikander (Winner)

    2014:

    Benedict Cumberbatch
    Michael Keaton
    Julianne Moore (Winner)
    Eddie Redmayne
    Reese Witherspoon

    Patricia Arquette
    Ethan Hawke
    Edward Norton
    Mark Ruffalo
    J.K. Simmons (Winner)

    2013:

    Cate Blanchett (Winner)
    Sandra Bullock
    Bruce Dern
    Chiwetel Ejiofor
    Matthew McConaughey

    Barkhad Abdi
    Michael Fassbender
    Jennifer Lawrence
    Jared Leto (Winner)
    Lupita N’Yongo

    2012:

    Jessica Chastain
    Daniel Day-Lewis (Winner)
    Hugh Jackman
    Jennifer Lawrence
    Denzel Washington

    Robert De Niro
    Sally Field
    Anne Hathaway (Winner)
    Philip Seymour Hoffman
    Tommy Lee Jones

    2011:

    George Clooney
    Viola Davis
    Jean Dujardin
    Brad Pitt
    Meryl Streep (Winner)

    Berenice Bejo
    Jessica Chastain
    Nick Nolte
    Christopher Plummer (Winner)
    Octavia Spencer

    2010:

    Jeff Bridges
    Jesse Eisenberg
    Colin Firth (Winner)
    James Franco
    Natalie Portman

    Christian Bale (Winner)
    Melissa Leo
    Jeremy Renner
    Geoffery Rush
    Hailee Steinfeld

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    Mad Max Guitarist
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    #213806

    2015:

    Cate Blanchett
    Leonardo DiCaprio
    Michael Fassbender
    Brie Larson
    Saoirse Ronan

    Jennifer Jason Leigh
    Rooney Mara
    Mark Rylance
    Sylvester Stallone
    Alicia Vikander 

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    Anonymous
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    #213807

    If you look at stories about actors in Hollywood, it definitely shows a bias towards males:

    “Females comprised a paltry 12% of protagonists in the top-grossing films of 2014. Over the past decade, the situation has gotten worse, not better. The latest figures represent a drop of three percentage points from 2013 and a fall of four percentage points from 2002.
    It’s not just a matter of having their names above the title. In secondary roles, females are underrepresented, comprising 29% of major characters and 30% of all speaking characters.
    39% of protagonists in films from female writers and directors were women, whereas women were 4% of the lead characters in films from male filmmakers.”
    So going by this, at least for 2014, if AMPAS represented Hollywood accurately in gender balance, we’d have 90% of lead nominees male, and then 70% of supporting nominees male.  

    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/women-lead-roles-in-movies-study-hunger-games-gone-girl-1201429016/
     
    The point of this thread isn’t to say “let’s do this” but pointing out that there definitely is a gender gap which people don’t really see, cuz most regular folks just care about acting categories + Best Picture, so there being an equal number of female + male nominees makes them assume it’s all fine. When, if not to the inordinate degree of several other branches/fields, it’s not fine. 
    This exercise to to try to see how others gauge just how well the actors’ votes would correspond to the uneven gender demographics. Certainly many have noticed that the dominantly white acting branch has served to reflect the dominantly white roles available in Hollywood.  

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    Josh Ben-Ami
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    #213808

    I imagine that it would be incredibly male-heavy in terms of nominations, but then there would be another entire political ballgame. I mean, it is true, male and female performances are worthy of comparison to one another…

    2014: Julianne Moore and JK Simmons
    2013: Cate Blanchett and Jared Leto
    2012: Daniel Day-Lewis and Anne Hathaway
    2011: Jean Dujardin and Christopher Plummer
    2010: Colin Firth and Christian Bale
    2009 would be a fustercluck.

    I do think this year it would be Brie Larson and Alicia Vikander. 

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    Anonymous
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    #213809

    Sure, I’ll play!

    Leonardo Dicaprio
    Eddie Redmayne
    Michael Fassbender
    Brie Larson
    Saoirse Ronan

    Sylvester Stallone
    Christian Bale
    Alicia Vikander
    Kate Winslet
    Jennifer Jason Leigh

    What they could do is combine the categories and then give them 10 slots each, like the BP category. So you’d have 10 slots for Best Actor and 10 slots for Best Supporting Actor, and they’d both be gender-neutral. Because actreses are like “genre films” in BP. As we all know, “women” is a separate genre.

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    Michael Norris
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    #213810

    The thing is, they’ll never limit the number of acting awards to two. That’s what brings the ratings more than anything else.

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    jamiepg88
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    #213811

    I don’t know that the experiment would be worth it though. The grammys combined the male/female rock performances how many years ago and women hardly ever break in. But despite the disparity they haven’t changed it back…whose to say having men consistently out number women at the oscars would actually encourage change. I mean so long as there’s one woman in the group I think people would look the other way.

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    seabel
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    #213812

    I find it uthopic.

    But, yes, it’s the only gendered category. There’s no female cinematographer or male composer. And, yes, males are more present than women, but times are a changing.

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    Riley
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    #213813

    Brie Larson standing next to Leonardo DiCaprio, ugh.  As always, the actress winner is in her twenties and is on her second acclaimed performance.  The actor is almost twice her age and on his ninth SAG nomination.  This says a few things about Hollywood, basically that the roles are not there for women and the roles are even less there for older women because the young are preferred.

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