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Why do women have to prove more?

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  • Anonymous
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    #108594

    I’m really tired of the Sandra Bullock and Cameron Diaz kind of talk on Oscar sites. People bitching about them all the time and trying to make them look like trash. 
    I mean look at Jesse Eisenberg, Jonah Hill or Bradley Cooper. They are all Oscar nominees now, but I consider them bad to terrible actors. Still people calling them as “the greatest of their generation”. People forget about their bad choices? Why is that? Why people can’t just forget about Diaz or Bullock bad choices and concentrate to their best performances? Why is so freakin’ easy to Michael Fassbender to be on the “best of the best” lists after one or two great performances when Jennifer Lawrence is still critized for everything she does, for being natural and choose right roles? 
    Lately I also read so much criticism and hate on certain sites about Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett, Kate Winslet, Nicole Kidman, Julia Roberts and Naomi Watts
    Is that all right? I don’t think so.  

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    BrokenFan
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    #108596

    lol Welcome to the internet…

    Most of those women you mentioned are highly acclaimed actors, so I feel like they have a higher standard to live up to than men. I don’t they have to prove themselves to anyone really. It’s just that they have rabid, foam-at-the-mouth fans who march onto virtual battle for their favorite queen which turns into pointless discussions and insults. They don’t have that kind of fervor with the men. 

    On a side note, people like Eisenberg, Cooper, and Hill, at least in my book, got very lucky with the right project. It’s crazy I think for people to call them “the best of the generation” because clearly, they’re not, and it’s still quite early. They just got the right role at the right time. The latter two especially has been smart and used the nod as a stepping stone for more good projects. 

    In the end though, it’s all about how you look at it as performances and etc. are highly subjective.  

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    Bill Buchanan
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    #108597

    Oh Vincelette, I believe you have been hanging out at awardswatch.com (formerly known as awardsdailyforums.com) too much.

    Anyway, as Boogawooga said, it’s the internet. People love to hate. The gender bias of this stems from society and the media machine we have today. I abhor those red carpets where women are forced to talk about their dresses. Of course we want people attending the Oscars to look good, and it’s totally fine for reporters and people watching to remark on how beautiful someone looks, but we shouldn’t salivate over the details of every single dress and crucify actresses when they don’t “pick the right one”.

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    Beau S.
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    #108598

    You give too little credit to Eisenberg/Hill/Cooper. All three went to great schools, Cooper in particular went to the same school that trained Brando, Pacino, Burstyn and Keitel. Every actor makes stupid decisions occasionally. The only actor in history who never made a bad decision was John Cazale, and to be fair he never really got the opportunity to make one.

    You are essentially doing exactly what you ask people not to do.

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    Tyjet
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    #108599

    The hypocrissy in the OP is really quite hilarious. Although I do agree with the intent in that it is annoying how much women are scrutinised and criticised when the same attitude/behaviours/careers from men are generally received much more positively.

    Although this is something that’s present across the internet(/society) as a whole, not just movie forums.

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    Scottferguson
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    #108600

    Eisenberg for me gave the second best American male lead performance of the decade. Hill was amazing in Moneyball. Cooper has proven himself.

    I’d say if anything male actors and their talent get too little, not enough, attention here and elsewhere compared to actresses.

    Actresses just get more passionate interest, both good and bad. Just the way things work. It’s mostly a male-driven thing, either straight guys attracted to them or gay men expressing a different kind of opposite sex attraction. (Somehow as a gay man I missed the gene where I’m supposed to be a fanboy of actresses, as much as I might respect them on a case to case basis.)

    The problem for women is other than being actresses. We are half way through 2013, and among studio released wide audience films, only a segment of Movie 43 and The Peebles had female directors. It’s pathetic.  

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    Beau S.
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    #108601

    Eisenberg for me gave the second best American male lead performance of the decade.

    I assume you are talking about The Social Network? If yes, then it’s way too early into the decade to be making such a statement, unless you mean of the decade so far.

    Who is the first? 

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    Scottferguson
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    #108602

    Meant of the lasy decade (Sept 03 – Aug 03), so all “candidates” seen already.

    Best for me would be Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain. 

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    Scottferguson
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    #108603

    Part of the reason for the female-based passion is because nearly all of our reaction to screen acting has very little to do with talent (virtually all film actors of any note of by definition very talented) but rather a reaction to types we identify and approve of. That’s where the passion comes from. So Jennifer Lawrence – very talented – is elevated because she is young and normal and starred in fan favorite Hunger Games; Meryl Streep – very talented – because she has succeeded as an older actress above others around her. Same with just about every fanboy favorite. They really aren’t that much better or worse than each other (apart from the fact that their performances often are a majority the result of the director), it’s just that they are a type people respond to.

    And the sad reality that we live in a world where it is considered more appropriate to pass judgments, often negative, on women more than men, because despite as liberated as any of us think we are, it’s easy to fall back into the position of taking easy shots at those less likely to fight back or to accept other people’s judgments as valid (women unfortunately historically having been more forced to play certain roles and live with certain restrictions). 

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    Pavel Romanov
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    #108604

    Sexism runs strong on the internet. Plus there are a lot of annoying fan boys spread all over the interwebs who like to tear down certain people because they bested one of their favorites. 

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    Titanium
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    #108605

     Actresses just get more passionate interest, both good and bad. Just the way things work. It’s mostly a male-driven thing, either straight guys attracted to them or gay men expressing a different kind of opposite sex attraction. 

    The problem for women is other than being actresses. We are half way through 2013, and among studio released wide audience films, only a segment of Movie 43 and The Peebles had female directors. It’s pathetic.  

    You’ve hit the nail on the head on both points Scott!

    Firstly like you said, actresses have got it bad from straight and gay dudes. But I think another problem is that a lot of women judge them/run other women down, I think it says a lot about society. Dustin Hoffman said about all this in an interview he did when asked about Tootsie. 

    Second of all; and we all can’t stress this enough… THEY NEEDS TO BE MORE MAINSTREAM FEMALE DIRECTORS! 

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    Anonymous
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    #108606

    You give too little credit to Eisenberg/Hill/Cooper. All three went to great schools, Cooper in particular went to the same school that trained Brando, Pacino, Burstyn and Keitel.

    Let’t not bring the euducation in it. Brando, Pacino, Burstyn and Keiter are all amazingly talented and had plenty of great performance. Bradley Cooper had one fine performance in a very good movie.  

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    Miss Frost
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    #108607

    Cooper always seemed to have a lot of potential. He really rose above all of the mediocre films he took part in before SLP. He has great range between each and every one of his roles.

    I see nothing great about Hill or Eisenberg. Hill did nothing but ride the coattails of an Oscar contender film, and Eisenberg simply found the right role that fits his limited acting abilities (Well unlike Hill, he actually put on a decent performance). I doubt we’ll see them back anytime soon.

       Cooper has no business being compared to them.

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    babypook
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    #108608

    I’m really tired of the Sandra Bullock and Cameron Diaz kind of talk on Oscar sites. People bitching about them all the time and trying to make them look like trash. 
    I mean look at Jesse Eisenberg, Jonah Hill or Bradley Cooper. They are all Oscar nominees now, but I consider them bad to terrible actors. Still people calling them as “the greatest of their generation”. People forget about their bad choices? Why is that? Why people can’t just forget about Diaz or Bullock bad choices and concentrate to their best performances? Why is so freakin’ easy to Michael Fassbender to be on the “best of the best” lists after one or two great performances when Jennifer Lawrence is still critized for everything she does, for being natural and choose right roles? 
    Lately I also read so much criticism and hate on certain sites about Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett, Kate Winslet, Nicole Kidman, Julia Roberts and Naomi Watts
    Is that all right? I don’t think so.  

    When I read the title of your thread I was all set to start by mentioning the centuries-long institutionalized and sanctioned misogyny by the ruling class (men, the Church) but I see you are being specific re various actors.
    I cant agree with your take on Eisenberg or Hill. Eisenberg, knocked me out in TSN and I said so copiously on these boards. Lol. And Hill, imo, is great at what he does, and he also has some versatility which I’d love to see him exploit more than he has,.
    Personally, I dont care for Diaz’s acting most of the time, although I thought she was terrific in GofNY and the mind-flippy one with Tom Cruise. But I dont care much for her thespian skills enough to look the name up of that fairly popular film. But Bullock, I’ve really liked from the time I first saw her in Love Potion #9. All about Steve is truly unfortunate, and she really really deserved that Razzie. But otherwise, I usually enjoy her films. And that’s so often the key thing, no matter how superio we know we are. Lol!

    As for the Streep bashing etc, around here, it’s usually the same old posters, blahblahblahblahblah. That’s perfectly fine; and clearly there is some kind of pay-off in it. We’re all entitled, no matter how assholic we may appear.  And there’s always comfort in numbers, no matter how miniscule the numbers.

    As for ‘making good choices’, I believe that luck, real luck, has as big a role, if not bigger, than the actual ‘choice’, which often isnt made in a vacuum. I wonder if Fassbender in retrospect, would choose to do “Shame” again, with the disapppointing Box Office and the Oscar snub. I guess we may never know. Lol! 

    The trick for me, is quite frankly, I dont give a rat’s ass what most people think about an actor or a film. I key on what interests me and the rest is just fluff.        

    Great thread Vince. 

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    Tye-Grr
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    #108609

    ^I agree that Eisenberg was terrific in ‘TSN’; it was my favorite performance of 2010 and one of my all-time favorites. I also thought Jonah Hill was great in ‘Moneyball’ and totally deserved his nomination. He’s a great comedian, and he’s shown his range in both ‘Moneyball’ and ‘Cyrus’. I’m also still banking on him earning another nomination for ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’. Cooper is decent. Of the three, he’s the weakest actor IMHO. But he’s shown growth recently and I thought he was very good in ‘Silver Linings Playbook’ (even though he wouldn’t have been one of my nominees), and he’s even better in ‘The Place Beyond The Pines’.

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