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Best Engineered Album/AOTY — what are the stats?

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  • Daniel Montgomery
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    #416130

    I’m trying to figure out the correlation between Engineered Album and Album of the Year, but the Wikipedia page for Best Engineered Album isn’t comprehensive enough (I’m looking for nominations and winners, and Wiki only has full nominations since 2010).

    Does anybody know where there’s a full list or know the stats for how Engineered Album relates to Album of the Year? I’m really feeling an Alabama Shakes win for AOTY.

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    Rinolo Twenty-two
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    #416132

    AOTY: Album of The Year
    BEA: Best Engineered Album, Non-Classical

    An AOTY nominee has advantage to win BEA, Since 2001, when an AOTY got nominated for BEA, it tends to win both, most of the time, only one AOTY nominee, get nominated for BEA, and that’s the favourite. 

    2014: Morning Phase (Beck) won both AOTY and BEA
    2013: Random Access Memories (Daft Punk) won both AOTY and BEA
    2005: Genius Loves Company (Ray Charles) won both AOTY and BEA
    2003: Come Away With Me (Norah Jones) won both AOTY and BEA
    2001: Two Against Nature (Steely Dan) won both AOTY and BEA
    2000: When I Look in Your (Diana Krall) won BEA, lost AOTY to Supernatural (Santana)
    1999:  The Globe Sessions (Sheryl Crow) won BEA, lost AOTY to The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (Lauryn Hill)
    1995: Longing in Their Hearts (Bonnie Raitt) won BEA, lost AOTY to MTV Unplugged (Tony Bennett)
    1994: Ten Summoner’s Tales (Sting)  won BEA, lost AOTY to The Bodyguard: Original Soundtrack Album (Whitney Houston)
    1992: Unforgettable… with Love (Natalie Cole with Nat King Cole) won both AOTY and BEA
    1991: Back on the Block (Quincy Jones) won both AOTY and BEA

    Due to lack of information about the BEA nominees before 2010, we can’t tell if an AOTY nominee has lost both, or there have been multiples AOTY contenders nominated for BEA.

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    Rinolo Twenty-two
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    #416133

    I think Alabama Shakes will win because:
    – It’s nominated for Best Engineered Album, and it will win that too.
    – Grammy voters loves rock music.
    – Some voters are lazy and don’t want to drill their ears with music by some of the rest of nominees, so they will go with the album with the best production.
    – Grammy voters don’t give AOTY to albums with a lot of producers, featured artists, etc.
    -Blake Mills only needed to submit Sound & Color to get a Producer of the Year nomination, if he wins, it’s done.

    Chris Stapleton could upset, if grammy voters don’t want to give Bob Ludwig (Sound & Color’s mastering engineer) a fourth AOTY award, making him the biggest winner there. Also, I read somewhere grammy voters are still too white and old, so there you go. 

    I still want Kendrick to win, but it’s unlikely at this point. Snoop Dogg (featured artist) would stop being the biggest grammy loser.

    Taylor Swift has made special concerts to grammy voters to show them she can sing, I read somewhere that counts and some members are voting for her.

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    Tomisin Williams
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    #416134

    Alabama Shakes will likely win AOTY, grammy voters love rock music.

    Taylor’s advocacy is something a lot of people dont understand. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that the grammys are just about the music and its really not. Taylor showing up to events that the voters care about definitely helped her. Also, how she wrote that open letter to apple music. Its why I am almost 100% sure that Taylor will win SOTY even if she does lose AOTY.

    I think that even I have underestimated Taylor. I would be lying to myself if I said that Taylor had no chance to win AOTY.

    A Chris upset could occur but I am starting to think its unlikely as its his first album.

    I dont think Kendrick will win because rap albums never do well in this category unfortunately. I just dont see it happening. The people who vote for the grammys are more on the conservative side.

    If their was a runner up (I had to guess who had the second highest amount of votes). I would guess Taylor and not Kendrick tbh at this point.

    Either way, even with Taylor and Kendrick losing AOTY they will still win a few grammys.

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    PoweR
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    #416135

    Why has no one considered a possible vote split between Chris Stapleton and Alabama Shakes? The rock and country blocs are both strong fields and they tend to overlap and both acts could be seen as the underdogs. Beck, Arcade Fire and others have been the only “underdogs” in their fields in their respective years.

    The Weeknd could take as many “urban” votes away from Kendrick Lamar as he could take as many pop votes away from Taylor Swift.

    I don’t think it’s as simple as technical nominations this year. 

    I still firmly believe Kendrick Lamar will pull off the win, despite all of the factors working against him.  

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    Richard Aniston
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    #416136

    Info for before 2010

    2009: No AOTY nominees were nominated for BEA
    2008: No AOTY nominees were nominated for BEA
    2007: No AOTY nominees were nominated for BEA
    2006: No AOTY nominees were nominated for BEA
    2005 already mentioned above
    2004: No AOTY nominees were nominated for BEA
    2003 already mentioned above
    2002: No AOTY nominees were nominated for BEA
    2001 already mentioned
    2000 already mentioned
    1999 alreay mentioned
    1998: The Day (Babyface) was nominated for AOTY and BEA but lost both.
    1997: No AOTY nominees were nominated for BEA
    1996: HIStory (Michael Jackson) was nominated for AOTY and BEA but lost both.
    1995: Mentioned above but additional note that Seal was nominated for AOTY and BEA.
    1994 mentioned above
    1993: Ingenue (k.d lang) was nominated for AOTY and BEA and lost both.

     

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    TerenceFletcher
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    #416137

    I posted this a couple months ago in the Album of the Year thread. I looked into the correlation between AOTY and the Best Engineered Album and Producer of the Year categories:

    Four of the last five AOTY winners have at least had nominations in the big below-the-line categories:

    2015 – Beck’s Morning Phase won Best Engineered Album. None of the other AOTY nominees were nominated, and none of the five had their producers nominated for Producer of the Year.

    2014 – Daft Punk’s Random Access Memories won Best Engineered Album, and again none of the other AOTY nominees were nominated and none of the five nominees had their producers nominated.

    2013 – Markus Dravs, producer of Mumford and Sons’ Babel, was nominated for Producer of the Year, but lost to Dan Auerbach (El Camino – The Black Keys). Jeff Bhasker (Some Nights – fun.) was also nominated. None of the five AOTY nominees were nominated for Best Engineered Album.

    2012 – Paul Epworth (21 – Adele) won Producer of the Year, and The Smeezingtons (Doo-Wops and Hooligans – Bruno Mars) and Butch Vig (Wasting Light – Foo Fighters) were nominated. None of the five AOTY nominees were nominated for Best Engineered Album.

    2011 –  Arcade Fire’s The Suburbs was not nominated in either category. None of the five AOTY nominees were nominated in Best Engineered Album. Dr. Luke (Teenage Dream – Katy Perry) and RedOne (The Fame Monster – Lady Gaga) were nominated for Producer of the Year, but both lost to Danger Mouse.

    While Chris Stapleton’s Traveller has its producer (Dave Cobb) nominated for Producer of the Year, Alabama Shakes’ Sound and Color is nominated for Best Engineered Album AND its producer (Blake Mills) is nominated for Producer of the Year. This is the first time for at least the past five years where an AOTY nominee has gotten nominations in both categories. While a nomination and/or win in one of the two categories seems to show strength in AOTY, nominations in both could be an even stronger indicator.

    It is also worth noting that Blake Mills received his Producer of the Year nomination with Sound and Color being the only thing he produced this year.

    Added 02/09/2016:
    I also would like to note that the Grammys have shown very little desire to embrace an album in the general field that is solely of the hip hop genre. Everyone likes to point to The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill and Speakerboxxx/The Love Below as precedents, but unlike To Pimp a Butterfly, these albums are not entirely hip hop, and heavily incorporate the R&B and funk genres respectively. And as far as Chris Stapleton and Alabama Shakes splitting votes, listening to both albums will show you that they are not the slightest bit similar (although both excellent). 

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    PoweR
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    #416138

    To Pimp a Butterfly may be rawer/grittier than those Lauryn Hill and Outkast offerings, but that album has strong elements of Jazz, ’90s Neo-Soul and 70s Funk.

    If anything makes Kendrick’s chances weak compared to Lauryn’s or Outkast’s, it’s the commercial success/appeal. But if they actually listen to the album and ignore everything else, they would hear strong elements of Grammy-friendly genres.

    And Alabama Shakes and Chris Stapleton pull from a similar pool of musicians who think that instruments = “real music.” They both appeal to vanilla voters, to put it bluntly. 

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    Tomisin Williams
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    #416139

    To Pimp a Butterfly may be rawer/grittier than those Lauryn Hill and Outkast offerings, but that album has strong elements of Jazz, ’90s Neo-Soul and 70s Funk.

    If anything makes Kendrick’s chances weak compared to Lauryn’s or Outkast’s, it’s the commercial success/appeal. But if they actually listen to the album and ignore everything else, they would hear strong elements of Grammy-friendly genres.

    And Alabama Shakes and Chris Stapleton pull from a similar pool of musicians who think that instruments = “real music.” They both appeal to vanilla voters, to put it bluntly. 

    I see your point with the vote split but I would argue their would probably be more of a vote split with Kendrick and Taylor. Before noms even came out, people were saying AOTY was between them. i dont think thats the case anyway though.

    I think you are right to go  with your gut but I just cannot see Kendrick winning. Kendrick winning AOTY is something that I will only be convinced of happening when it does happen. If somehow he does win, I will be shocked but happy for him as its well deserved.

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    slh315
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    #416140

    Kendrick is definitely deserving, but knowing how the Grammys are, it would seemingly be more about politics than really caring about the album. “Give it to the black guy so we’re not accused of racism.” I just don’t think the Grammy voters care about rap. That industry survey thing from last year had rap as the least favorite genre. I think that’s why a hugely mainstream song like Thrift Shop won over Kendrick last time, and why mainstream Macklemore beat him. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill and Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, the only rap albums to win, were both way more mainstream and better selling than TPAB. Hey Ya!, Roses, The Way You Move, I mean, those were all over pop radio. They were huge. Doo Wop (That Thing) still comes on Adult Contemporary all the time! And Doo Wop, Hey Ya!, and The Way You Move were #1 hits. So for right now, TPAB is just like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy to me, except it actually got the nomination. Incredibly deserving, but it’s not like they’ll finally embrace rap out of nowhere. If he wins, it’ll be one of the most deserved wins, in my opinion, but I won’t pretend like it’s not for reasons other than quality music.

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    Final2
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    #416141

    Taylor could spit votes with Chris as well. Yes, “1989” is a pop album but Taylor Swift is still a country/pop singer with plenty of ties to Nashville and the country music scene. She’ll also spit some votes with the Weeknd over pop. All the nominees will split votes because really all of the music nominated for AotY has reasons that would split music genre votes.

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    Tomisin Williams
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    #416142

    Kendrick is definitely deserving, but knowing how the Grammys are, it would seemingly be more about politics than really caring about the album. “Give it to the black guy so we’re not accused of racism.” I just don’t think the Grammy voters care about rap. That industry survey thing from last year had rap as the least favorite genre. I think that’s why a hugely mainstream song like Thrift Shop won over Kendrick last time, and why mainstream Macklemore beat him. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill and Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, the only rap albums to win, were both way more mainstream and better selling than TPAB. Hey Ya!, Roses, The Way You Move, I mean, those were all over pop radio. They were huge. Doo Wop (That Thing) still comes on Adult Contemporary all the time! And Doo Wop, Hey Ya!, and The Way You Move were #1 hits. So for right now, TPAB is just like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy to me, except it actually got the nomination. Incredibly deserving, but it’s not like they’ll finally embrace rap out of nowhere. If he wins, it’ll be one of the most deserved wins, in my opinion, but I won’t pretend like it’s not for reasons other than quality music.

    Thank You!!! Someone said it. Macklemore won because they were more mainstream. The fact that TPAB is not mainstream like the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill and Speakerboxxx/The Love Below really hurts Kendrick’s chances. So how can I accurately predict TPAB will win AOTY? I cannot.

    I was reading an article about how a grammy voter voted for Kendrick because he got snubbed last time. If Kendrick wins, it will be because of his snub and for the academy to show that were not racist. The voters do not like rap in general. Thats a fact. So most voters who DO vote for him will be voting for other reasons than the music itself. Grammy voting is more political than anything. It is just not about the music.

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    ImKing
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    #416143

    The hate for Kendrick is real.

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    PoweR
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    #416144

    We all know how the Academy works. Many us have been posting on Goldderby and have been predicting the Grammy categories for years. You are not saying anything new or informative. Kendrick Lamar potentially losing Album of the Year would not shock any of his predictors.

    And who’s to say that Kendrick Lamar winning would be ONLY because of white guilt? There are people who genuinely think his album is deserving of industry recognition. Of course other things could work in his favor, just like Taylor’s shameful lobbying could work in her favor or Alabama Shakes and Chris Stapleton making “real music” could work in theirs. 

    As far as the industry not liking rap, it’s because the entertainment industry is made up of a lot of white people – a lot of them are old and behind the times, and any genre that is dominated by non-white races will always be at a disadvantage. Also, anything that doesn’t contain instruments isn’t considered “real music” (ironically, To Pimp a Butterfly contains almost as much instrumentation as those Stapleton and Alabama Shakes records). Rap contains a lot of sampling.

    It’s funny how these surveys state rap is the least liked genre of music, yet the industry continues to cash on it by making studio creations such as Macklemore and Iggy Azelea.  

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    Tomisin Williams
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    #416145

    ALL signs are pointing to an Alabama Shakes win. Taylor has a shot though, not going to lie. If their was a runner up, it would probably be her. I think this a diff situation for Taylor because she did not have a chance with Red. Taylor’s advocacy also boosts her chances. The biggest thing hurting Taylor’s chances is the fact that she already won AOTY before. It shouldn’t matter but it does. Everthing is political with the grammys. Chris could also upset and I would not be shocked.

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