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2012 Gold Derby Emmy VIDEO SLUGFESTS

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  • Riley
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    Riley
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    #246411

    Yay, just watched the Drama Series Slugfest.  Very glad to have these
    back.  I do of course need to take issue with your predictions and
    justifications, though.

    You guys are way overestimating Downton Abbey‘s
    chances.  Yes, it has won a “program” award, but the miniseries
    categories are not the same as the drama ones.  They are uniformly much
    easier to break into, so that Hugh Bonneville and Michelle Dockery could
    not even break in there indicates that their chances are nil against
    real competition.  The other thing that takes it out of winning series
    is how reviled its second season has been.  If you are the incumbent and
    have a shaky season like Modern Family, you can hold on, but
    you cannot seize the throne with one.  Going back to the miniseries
    categories being easier, who even says that it makes it into series? 
    Plus, I do feel that their is an American bias.  Look at the original
    British version of The Office.  That was the single most
    influential comedy of the 2000s decade and also one of the most
    acclaimed, yet it failed to breakthrough in the series categories.  But
    where did it manage to score nominations?  In the TV movie categories
    for its Christmas special.  “Oh,” you say, “perhaps it was only just
    starting to catch on in America.”  First of all, not only did it manage
    to win the comedy series Golden Globe, but would it not have made sense
    for the Emmys to honour Extras both as a makeup and because that series was also acclaimed, albeit less-so?  Well, two years of Extras
    did manage to get two writing, one directing and four guest acting
    nominations and a lead actor win, but only once it entered the
    miniseries/movie categories did it finally score a program nomination,
    in addition to its most nominations in a single year in its three-year
    run and its first technical nomination (for editing).  The transition for Downton Abbey
    will not be seamless, it will certainly not gain any new nominations
    and I am not even personally convinced that it will score a series
    nomination, as it comes off of its supposed mediocre season.

    As I have stated elsewhere in this forum, I do believe drama series to be a three-horse race for the win and I include Breaking Bad
    in that.  The acclaim for its fourth season is just impossible to
    ignore.  How many times did people proclaim it to be one of the all-time
    television great seasons and how many times did critics place it first
    on their year-end lists?

    I also need to explain why you are all over-crediting The Good Wife.  I disagree with people voting for it just because it is on a commercial broadcast network.  What happens when The Good Wife
    gets cancelled?  Do voters find some other show to fill this supposed
    “network slot”?  No and if such biases truly existed, they never would
    have let it get to the point where cable is guaranteed at least five out
    of six nominations for television’s top prize.  The Good Wife
    is merely getting nominated because voters like it, but that support is
    fading.  Many of us expected the show to grow to grow in nominations
    last year and even pose a threat to win series, but we clearly
    over-estimated its support when it merely matched its nominations and
    failed to repeat in writing, break into directing, make much splash in
    the technical categories, get a nomination for Chris Noth to match his
    one from the Golden Globes or get any surprise guest nominations.  Then
    Michael J. Fox could not even win guest actor and they messed up their
    series submissions.  Just like Boardwalk Empire or Dexter,
    it does not really matter how good the show was this past season.  It
    is just done.  It had its chance to go big and it is downhill from here.

    Speaking of Boardwalk Empire,
    I am not ready to drop it.  I know that this forum is ready to drop it,
    but we were ready last year.  Everyone here just acknowledged that it
    would score a bunch of nominations and we would have to agree to
    disagree with voters.  It seems like we have allowed them to have their
    fun, but now must really boot the show.  Yes, Emmy voters are getting
    better at recognizing quality, but think about Dexter or HouseDexter and House‘s
    last nomination-worthy seasons were their fourths, yet they both still
    got nominations for their fifth seasons before being dropped late the
    year after (probably, in Dexter‘s case).  Damages should not have been nominated for its second season and was dropped for its third.  Glee
    should not have been nominated for its second season last year, but
    still made it in with severely reduced nominations elsewhere.  I do not
    really know when Entourage stopped being good, but I bet that it stayed a year too long as well.  My point, of course, is that Boardwalk Empire will stay a year longer than it should.  Then again, the situation that Boardwalk Empire is
    in is not really comparable to these other shows that I have just
    listed.  Everyone seems to agree that this season was actually better
    than last year.  The ensemble and Steve Buscemi just won their second
    consecutive Screen Actors Guild Awards.  This season also got two
    nominations in Episodic Drama by the Writers Guild, along with a
    nomination for Drama Series.  And although it was for the first season,
    the Producers Guild just honoured it with their top prize in January. 
    It also matched its three nominations for series, Buscemi and Kelly
    Macdonald at the Golden Globes that it got in its first season this time
    around.  The critics are moving on, but the industry certainly does not
    seem to be.  As the Emmys fall somewhere between with their
    nominations, we will certainly see less Boardwalk Empire in the nominations this year, but I bet that it still gets into series.

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    Riley
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    #246412

    I agree much more on Comedy Series, at least with Boomer and Rob L.  Those are the six nominees and there is not much to discuss there.

    I particularly like what Boomer says about Girls being red-hot right now, but not being able to score a series nomination for another year.  I liken it to Louie and Flight of the Conchords, two writer-as-actor offbeat shows.  In its first season, Flight of the Conchords got writing and directing nominations.  Its second season got those again and added a series nomination and a surprise lead actor nomination.  Louie got a writing nomination for its first season and surprised with a lead actor nomination.  I am assuming that it gets these again for its second year and adds a series nomination.  This year, I am predicting a writing nomination for Girls and have not made up my mind yet for lead actress, but am predicting these and series for 2013 already.

    I now understand why you place Larry David second in your lead actor predictions, but I disagree.  That show is done in the eyes of Emmy voters.  Yes, it has amassed nine nominations in directing, including even a win, but it has not been nominated there since 2006.  What kind of a show falls off and gets nominated six years later?  This indicates dying support for the series to me.  Larry David has been nominated four out of seven times, in 2010, 2006, 2004 and 2003.  That sounds like category filler to me.  I do believe that the field is weak enough, so he will break through, but I am not extremely confident.  Curb Your Enthusiasm is an old show, too, so there is always the possibility that the Emmys could suddenly forget the series, especially with it having missed last season’s eligibility period.  And is Larry David that beloved by voters, as you guys allude to?  The man has not won an Emmy in any category since 1993!  This is the creator of Seinfeld, what I would say is the greatest American sitcom.

    But I do need to credit Curb Your Enthusiasm as not being completely without hope as it did score its highest ratings ever this year, David could win with a good submission if nominated, this season and individual episodes generated buzz that cannot be wholly discounted, it won the Directors Guild Award this year for the first time since 2003 and most importantly, the Seinfeld season that was skunked for directing still managed two editing nominations, indicating that they must not have been that far off in directing (but still missed).

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    A Person
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    #246413

    The last time Curb was nominated for Series was 2010, not 2006, so it hasn’t been that long.

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    Riley
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    #246414

    [quote=”thedemonhog”]I
    now understand why you place Larry David second in your lead actor
    predictions, but I disagree.  That show is done in the eyes of Emmy
    voters.  Yes, it has amassed nine nominations in directing, including
    even a win, but it has not been nominated there since 2006.  What kind
    of a show falls off and gets nominated six years later?  This indicates
    dying support for the series to me.

    The last time Curb was nominated for Series was 2010, not 2006, so it hasn’t been that long.[/quote]In directing.

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    Laactingnyc
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    #246415

    Will the supporting comedy categories have a slugfest video soon? And also Comedy guest actors and actresses?

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    Denis
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    #246416

    It’s quite lame that people keep using that argument because CYE is in it’s 8th season, that last season was one of the funniest season of this show after 8 freaking years airing, that only happens with the best, do not understimate it.

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    montana82
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    #246417

    It’s so depressing to read the Emmy predix.  Same ole names.  Close. Hargitay. Sedgwick.  Linney. Fey. Baldwin.  How many Emmys and nominations do they need?  If they had the courage to drop favorites like Jeremy Piven and Allison Janney after their multiple wins why can’t they drop any of these names to make room for some fresh performances and shows that desperately need the attention.  All the Emmys in the world have not helped Damages, Big C, or 30 Rock find an audience so move on. Hargitay didn’t even show up last year, even she knows its time.

    And it’s just absurd to see Cloris Leachman in the predix of Boomer while Martha Plimpton and Garret Dillahunt are no where near it.  And with all the love Mad Men is getting why can’t Vincent Kartheiser break through?  He gives my favorite performance on the show.

    Oh well I hope the voters are more likely to throw out some of the old and get IN with some of the new.  Would much rather see Madeline Stowe or Michelle Dockery get in instead of the biggers names like Close (whose show is seen by about 5 people on Directv) or Bates (whose show was CANCELLED).  And how about a funny lady like Plimpton over the Showtime Emmy magnets whose shows aren’t very funny or widely watched?

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    Kevin Jacobsen
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    #246418

    It’s so depressing to read the Emmy predix.  Same ole names.  Close. Hargitay. Sedgwick.  Linney. Fey. Baldwin.  How many Emmys and nominations do they need?  If they had the courage to drop favorites like Jeremy Piven and Allison Janney after their multiple wins why can’t they drop any of these names to make room for some fresh performances and shows that desperately need the attention.  All the Emmys in the world have not helped Damages, Big C, or 30 Rock find an audience so move on. Hargitay didn’t even show up last year, even she knows its time.

    And it’s just absurd to see Cloris Leachman in the predix of Boomer while Martha Plimpton and Garret Dillahunt are no where near it.  And with all the love Mad Men is getting why can’t Vincent Kartheiser break through?  He gives my favorite performance on the show.

    Oh well I hope the voters are more likely to throw out some of the old and get IN with some of the new.  Would much rather see Madeline Stowe or Michelle Dockery get in instead of the biggers names like Close (whose show is seen by about 5 people on Directv) or Bates (whose show was CANCELLED).  And how about a funny lady like Plimpton over the Showtime Emmy magnets whose shows aren’t very funny or widely watched?

    I agree that the Emmys should move on from choosing the same perrenial nominees but not because the shows aren’t widely watched. The Emmys aren’t about saving low-rated shows nor are they supposed to be some reflection of the most popular shows. They’re about rewarding the best television on the airwaves (though that doesn’t necessarily mean they get it right some of the time). I sincerely hope that dropping Sedgwick last year after her win the year before will start a trend of looking outside the same ol’ nominees but you can’t expect a huge change year to year. I think we’ll see some change (dropping Laurie & Hall from Drama Lead Actor, Falco from Comedy Lead Actress, decreased love for The Good Wife) but we’ll also see more of the same (Baldwin & Fey, Hargitay, Linney, absurd Modern Family love).

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    jacob121
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    #246419

    I’m glad I’m not the only one predicitng that Michelle Dockery will surprise in the Drama Actress category.

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    Slam
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    #246420

    In the comedy race:

    Surprised at not a single mention of “The Office”, I know it’s time has passed, but not spoken of at all??? And “The Office” (bad as this season was), is still a stronger show than “Glee” (in my opinion). Not to mention it’s been nominated 6 years in a row, and won once…. and has always had a directing and/or a writing nod (winning one of each), often times both. A serious perennial contender and not even a mention????? 

    Also, I wasn’t aware “Girls” was so strongly disliked by our GoldDerby editors. I loved the entire season, and would definitely place it near the top of my personal list.

    For drama:

    I think it’s a shame “Boardwalk Empire” probably gets left out of series this time. It’s second season was stronger than it’s first. I think I’m just not too thrilled with this season of “The Good Wife”, so I’d rather see that miss out if something has too.

    This will be be the 3rd year in a row that an HBO drama gets one series nod and then is left off, following in the foot steps of “True Blood”, and “Big Love” (each were nominated for their “best” seasons). It also happened in 2005 w/ “Deadwood”.

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    Andrew Eng
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    #246421

    For drama:

    I think it’s a shame “Boardwalk Empire” probably gets left out of series this time. It’s second season was stronger than it’s first. I think I’m just not too thrilled with this season of “The Good Wife”, so I’d rather see that miss out if something has too.

    This will be be the 3rd year in a row that an HBO drama gets one series nod and then is left off, following in the foot steps of “True Blood”, and “Big Love” (each were nominated for their “best” seasons). It also happened in 2005 w/ “Deadwood”.

    Wow, if Boardwalk Empire follows the trend and gets snubbed, while GoT makes it, then GoT will be 1 of 3 HBO dramas (the others being The Sopranos and Six Feet Under) to get more than 1 nom in the Drama Series category. Way back in 2010, who would have thought a HBO fantasy drama could possibly outlast a HBO mobster drama, and produced by Martin Scorsese no less? 

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    Irishmovielover4ever
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    #246422

    BUMP

    When are going to get more slugfest videos? or are we getting any more?

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    Laactingnyc
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    #246423

    I’m really anxious to see the supporting actor and actresses for comedy videos.. and i would love it if you guys did a Guest acting video.

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    Riley
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    #246424

    I thought that they would make blog posts weeks ago about the drama and
    comedy series videos, but they have not, so here are direct links to the
    videos:

    Drama Series
    Comedy Series

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