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Official Game of Thrones (Season 4) Thread Part II

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  • Marcus Snowden (The Artist Formerly Known as msnowden1)
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    #319086

    Let the discussion continue.

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    Anonymous
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    #319088

    The book-reader recap on AV Club has it tied as the worst episode of the season. Currently in 5th place for the season on Tower of the Hand. Bring on The Children. 

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    Riley
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    #319089

    Remember that time in the first season when Tyrion was running into
    battle, then got knocked out and woke up when it was over?  “Baelor” is
    nearly the best episode of the show, but since the show can no longer
    afford to skip over anything since the books are not getting published,
    they decided to build an entire episode around a similar battle.  It is
    telling how much they are stretching things when you read online that
    Sam and Gilly were not even at the battle in the books.

    “Blackwater”
    was also built around a battle, but that had Tyrion at its centre, who
    is infinitely more interesting than Jon Snow.  Where Tyrion gave a
    rousing battle speech, Jon barely says anything ever.  In addition to
    Tyrion, King’s Landing has a host of other super compelling characters
    relative to Sam and Gilly and each of them had a moment.  In
    “Blackwater”, it mattered who was in the battle and where they had come
    from over the course of the season.  “The Watchers on the Wall” was
    about a battle and nothing else.  It may as well have just been a bunch
    of extras fighting each other and to some extent it was, which is the
    problem.  Sure, Ygritte died, but she ran out of story a season ago.

    jjjmoss
    has been dreading this episode for a while and it turns out that that
    was entirely justified.  This is what happens when you split a book into
    two seasons.  I guess the tradition of the penultimate episode being
    the best is over.  That might be a good thing in that it relieves some
    pressure for future ninth episodes.  Or they could just done better.

    In
    the end, Jon decides that it is time to go talk to Mance alone
    face-to-face, so the show is boring and it is going in circles.  Some
    things confused me from a logistical standpoint.  What is the point of a
    massive wall if there is a poorly defended gate at the bottom?

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    Sean C
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    #319090

    Remember that time in the first season when Tyrion was running into
    battle, then got knocked out and woke up when it was over?  “Baelor” is
    nearly the best episode of the show, but since the show can no longer
    afford to skip over anything since the books are not getting published,
    they decided to build an entire episode around a similar battle.  It is
    telling how much they are stretching things when you read online that
    Sam and Gilly were not even at the battle in the books.

    The Battle of the Wall is a much, much bigger deal in the books than the Battle of the Green Fork.  The latter was part of one Tyrion chapter.  The former covers several Jon chapters.  Sam and Gilly weren’t there, but that’s because of how the third book has been restructured; in the book all of this occurred very shortly after Jon returned to Castle Black (he got back before Sam and Gilly did), but with the season split, Sam and Gilly’s book story was basically finished at the end of season 3, so they had to be back.  Given that Sam is the only other well-developed character at the Wall, it makes sense for him to be there.

    That said, this episode was no “Blackwater”.

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    Anonymous
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    #319091

    Well, this episode did not cover “several” chapters. It covered 2 chapters and like 1 page of a 3rd. I believe that gives it the episodic record for fewest chapters covered. 

    It definitely has the record for fewest major characters – with 3 of those 5 main cast members unimportant enough to have missed most of the season so far. The previous record was 11 for the sure-to-be-compared Blackwater. 
    As such, it makes sense that it also breaks the record for fewest POVs from the book – Blackwater had 3 (Davos/Tyrion/Sansa), while this episode has Jon chapters plus new Sam material.

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    Morgan Henard
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    #319092

    Last week’s episode had more of an “Episode 9” feel to it that than this did.  

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    Icky
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    #319093

    I didn’t mind this. The actual battle was way too drawn out but at least aethetically pleasing, much more so than in “Blackwater”. There was also less stop and go frustration. But I really couldn’t give more than several fucks about Jon and his Wall buddies. And there was time to catch-up on some other storylines. So, overall, slight edge to “Blackwater”, though neither for me were two of the episodes very best. 

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    24Emmy
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    #319094

    jjjmoss
    has been dreading this episode for a while and it turns out that that
    was entirely justified.  This is what happens when you split a book into
    two seasons. 
    I guess the tradition of the penultimate episode being
    the best is over.  That might be a good thing in that it relieves some
    pressure for future ninth episodes.  Or they could just done better.

     

    I’m sorry Riley, but as someone who loved Book 3 I must disagree. There’s no way they could’ve covered everything that needed to be shown in just 10 episodes. That was a smart decision by HBO and the creators.

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    Atypical
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    #319095

    Oh Ygrette. I’ll miss Rose Leslie very much. This was a fine episode. Nothing near the level of the past three penultimates (“Baelor,” “Blackwater,” and “The Rains of Castamere”), but nothing on the level of worst ever for the series. Great showcase for Kit Harington, even if Jon Snow did much more than said here. Holding off the audience from last week’s thrilling and pivotal episode was questionable, but this episode was no filler to me at least. Can’t wait for the season finale!

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    Jose Manuel Garcia
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    #319096

    I might the only one here, but i do love this chapter. The Battle in the book is different in some sense, it was realistic tough.
    For once we have all an episode center in one point and it feels great.

    Problem of this chapter, it is that for the last one they have to cover a lot of things, and they dont have so much time left… Things in Kings Landing should be very exciting, but i am more interested in the last death on the book, which takes far far from kings Landings

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    DominicCobb
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    #319097

    The complaints for this episode are obvious, and anyone could have made them before so much as watching the hour. But let’s not ignore what a thrill this whole thing was from start to finish. Put simply, spectacle of this scale has never been seen on a TV show before. I’d say that’s noteworthy.

    Also, I feel like this probably isn’t the best place for me to discuss this show (my favorite on TV). It seems like most people here don’t even care for it, and only watch it so that they can figure out what tapes will be submitted. Ugh.  

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    Matt Morse
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    #319098

    ^ I care for it Dominic!

    But no it seems like this was a game of expectations.  Anyone who was expecting something else an (almost) hour of an action movie was severly disappointed.  Which I dont know what you were expecting.  The poster, the previews everything said mini action movie.  And they delivered.

    Anyone who read the book and were excpting it to end and play out like the books were also disappointed.  (Or upset that certain book-alive characters were killed off…)

    But it seems across the internet unspoiled, moderately invested show watchers loved this epsisode.  The average Joe is raving about it online.

    I think more and more this show is playing to that audience, as I think they should.  They are no longer trying to chase the shadow of the ASOIAF books.  They seem interested in telling their story and making TV that everyone can enjoy not just people who have poored into the books.  Just look at the AV club ratings disparity between book reader reviews and non book reader reviews.

    Another example was the big criticism that people had with “Blackwater” was that nobody significant nor important died.  It was a battle with no real impactful results beyond the politics.  Well they turned it up here and killed off characters that aren’t even dead of course upsetting some book fans but doing what was best for the show.  I think that decision was smart.  It made you feel something in this episode that I didn’t feel in Blackwater.

    As for ending where they ended… that makes a lot of sense.  Id hate to see them rush what comes next into 10 minutes.

    That all being said this was basically a mini action movie, beyond technicals I dont see this getting emmy attention unless voters are just impressed with the scope of what is happening in the Television medium right now.  I’d love to see this get a directin nomination but not holding my breath.
     

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    CanadianFan
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    #319099

    I thought this was a pretty great episode, but I agree that it was hard to care about some of the characters. 

    I still think the idea to divide the book into two seasons paid off. In fact, I think they could stretch it out longer than 20 episodes. If we had more scenes of character development with Jon and his pals, we might care more. I never get tired of spending an hour a week in Westeros…

     

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    Junk
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    #319100

    So are we getting any of Castle Black scenes in the 10th episode? A week ago I was dying to know what would happen to Tyrion and was frankly a little disappointed with this episode that they didn’t cover anything else. Now, I’d be disappointed if they don’t show what happens to Jon Snow and Co. and choose to not show his scenes altogether next week.

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    probablyROB
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    #319101

    I actually really liked this episode.  Hell of a lot more than Blackwater.

    I was talking with my roommates after the episode and I came to one conclusion about the series and this season as a whole:  I would be perfectly content with Daenarys and almost everything involving her now be touched on through expository dialogue.

    I find Jon Snow and the nightwatch about a billlion times more interesting than almost everything involving her right now.  And it’s been that way pretty much since the end of season 2. 

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