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Daytime Emmys: Should the Digital Dramas Compete with the Soaps @ Daytime Emmys?

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Daytime Emmys: Should the Digital Dramas Compete with the Soaps @ Daytime Emmys?
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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203587643

    I know I am bringing this up, on the heels of the Digital Drama Series being awarded this Sunday but I think the Digital Drama soaps and the Daytime Dramas should compete together in the same categories.

    At this point, I find it a little ridiculous that four soaps are competing against one another, and we have the same nominees for Best Drama, Writing, and Directing every single year. In comparison to the Primetime Emmys, with hundreds of shows that compete for the Emmy. In no shape or form, that I am trying to discredit the Daytime Emmys because the actors work so hard and earned recognition for their work, but in times, it feels like a participation award especially with the Drama, Writing, and Directing Team categories,, and no longer feels like an actual competition.

    I know the Emmy rules state that if a Digital Series has at least 35 original episodes, they can compete with the soaps, but none do that because most digital series, only have like 10-25 episodes. I know that rules were made that way so that OLTL and AMC could submit for consideration for 2014 Emmys when they went online.

    Also, I know they feared backlash from the executives and actors of soaps who would not find it a fair competition if they allowed online soaps with just like 10 episodes to soaps who usually produce over 200 episodes per year. While I do think these arguments hold water, it is a little confusing.

    Because the Emmys have never been about the body of work, its always been about the reels the show submits. Actors only submit a couple of episodes to make a reel. It ALWAYS been about the reel. The Soaps only submit like four episodes for Best Drama, Writing or Directing; Digital Dramas can do the same. Like the judges don’t watch 265 episodes, in all 4 soaps, and then pick the best show, they literally pick the best reel. Like God forbid, one of the four soaps, get canceled,  like are only 3 soaps going to be competing against one another? I think that is a little ridiculous.

    Honestly, I know for this year, some technical categories such as Music Direction, Casting, Camera Editing,  Art Direction, and Costume Design, are allowing the Soaps and Digital Series compete together in those categories, so why not do it for performing, acting, directing, writing, and all eligible categories across the board? What do y’all think?

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    EmmyLoser
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    #1203587703

    I have very little experience with the digital dramas, and have recently been trying to get better acquainted with them. I recently started Eastsiders, and I’m in the second season of that. Part of what seems odd to me is why these are considered daytime shows. If a show is airing on a digital platform, what makes it more like a soap versus a primetime show? Subject matter? My feeling is that these shows are so much their own thing, and it seems unfair for them to have to compete with the four network soaps. While I think it was a good idea combining the tech categories the way they did, I don’t think there are any other shows similar enough to the network soaps to make competing against them in performer, writing, directing and series categories make sense. Maybe as I see other digital soaps, I’ll change my mind? From what I’ve heard, shows like Beacon Hill, Venice and The Bay seem more traditionally soapy than Eastsiders.

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    youngsoapfan
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    #1203588713

    I think it should stay the way it is, Digital dramas have their own popularity, but combine them in the same category as the regular soaps, i think they’ll steal half to 3 quarters of the nominees. I will compare it to this years combining the younger acting category into one. It ended up being all female nominees, which sort of defeated the purpose in them combining the category, they may as well have just said there weren’t enough eligible males and kept it at younger actress…that being said. Yay again for Olivia Rose Keegan, and boo to combining digital and regular, i think it’ll go back to 1993-2007 with Days getting a nomination like every 2 or 3 years, and they deserve waaaaaaay better than that.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203589008

    I think it should stay the way it is, Digital dramas have their own popularity, but combine them in the same category as the regular soaps, i think they’ll steal half to 3 quarters of the nominees. I will compare it to this years combining the younger acting category into one. It ended up being all female nominees, which sort of defeated the purpose in them combining the category, they may as well have just said there weren’t enough eligible males and kept it at younger actress…that being said. Yay again for Olivia Rose Keegan, and boo to combining digital and regular, i think it’ll go back to 1993-2007 with Days getting a nomination like every 2 or 3 years, and they deserve waaaaaaay better than that.

    I actually disagree that they would take 3/4 of the nominees. In fact, case in point, at the 2014 Daytime Emmys, when the online versions of OLTL and AMC were eligible to submit, AMC got zero nominations in performing, writing, and directing. While OLTL, got only 1 performer, which was Younger Actress, for Kelley Missal, and they won Directing Team and were nominated for Drama Series, that was pretty much it. So honestly, I believe, in fact, that it would be the online digital dramas that may get fewer nominations. Even in the technical categories that both the digital and dramas can submit in, they represent the minority of the nominees.

    But I do agree with the fact that combining Younger Actor and Actress, was an idiotic move. Both Awards have been on over 30 years, and just abolishing them, was absolutely ridiculous. As a matter of fact, their fear of not having eligible people to submit could have been fixed easily by allowing the younger performers of those digital dramas submit in the Younger Actor/Actress categories, and boom, more eligible candidates.

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    EmmyLoser
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    #1203589064

    THAT’S an interesting thought. Create younger actor and actress categories that are open to both network and digital dramas. It would be an interesting experimentation in what would happen if they combined categories.

    Would you compare most of the digital dramas to the online AMC and OLTL? If so, I would be much more amenable to all these shows competing together. From what I saw, those shows felt really constructed and produced like a traditional soap, albeit with not a full year of episodes. I was definitely rooting for Kelly Missal at those awards.

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    DS0816
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    #1203589374

    The Daytime Emmys are now meaningless.

    I write this because there are barely any soaps [drama series] left on ABC, CBS, and NBC.

    The Daytime Emmys’ prestige—for those who think there was ever any in the first place—is gone.

    I don’t care what National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences (NATAS) does with their Daytime Emmy Awards. What I want is for no one remaining in the business to lose out any further—and this is referencing the 2009 to 2012 cancellations with last-episode runs on the broadcast networks with CBS’s Guiding Light and As the World Turns and ABC’s All My Children and One Life to Live.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203590952

    THAT’S an interesting thought. Create younger actor and actress categories that are open to both network and digital dramas. It would be an interesting experimentation in what would happen if they combined categories. Would you compare most of the digital dramas to the online AMC and OLTL? If so, I would be much more amenable to all these shows competing together. From what I saw, those shows felt really constructed and produced like a traditional soap, albeit with not a full year of episodes. I was definitely rooting for Kelly Missal at those awards.

    Yeah, it would be an interesting experiment, I agree. But honestly, with, the fact that the Daytime Emmys, want to be more gender-inclusive and the fact that there are fewer soap operas, they won’t reverse their decision.

    A lot of the Digital Drama, have soap opera themes, plot stories, and character arcs to them, so I would say some certainly felt like soap opera. But the thing is, for the Primetime Emmys, in the “Outstanding Drama Series” categories, they accept everything from comedy-dramas to horror to sci-fi fantasy to primetime soap operas ~ as long as the show is a drama and a full hour, the show is eligible. I think the Daytime Emmys should have gone the same route, and allow any online show, to submit in the categories. I know the rules say they accept online dramas with 35 episodes, but I think they should lower that number so that some digital dramas can submit with the soaps, and make it a true and interesting competition.

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    alokin
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    #1203592794

    It was my understanding that any younger actor/actress starring in a Digital Drama would have been eligible this year to compete in the newly-created Younger Performer category, correct? If some had made the nominees list, then perhaps yes, that would’ve been ground enough to warrant a re-branching of the Younger Performer category into gender-based categories. Since none made the final ballot, however, I feel such an action as unnecessary.

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    EmmyLoser
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    #1203593095

    Oh, is that right? I thought the younger performer category was only open to performers on the four network dramas. Interesting.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203594137

    It was my understanding that any younger actor/actress starring in a Digital Drama would have been eligible this year to compete in the newly-created Younger Performer category, correct? If some had made the nominees list, then perhaps yes, that would’ve been ground enough to warrant a re-branching of the Younger Performer category into gender-based categories. Since none made the final ballot, however, I feel such an action as unnecessary.

    That not quite accurate. If you look at the 2019-2020 Rulebook for the Daytime Emmys, see:

    https://daytimeemmys.dmds.com/Content/documents/GeneralRulesandProcedures.pdf

    it states that “performers in digital dramas ages 25 and under are eligible to enter the Lead and Supporting Digital Drama acting categories” as the Younger Performer category is only reserved for the network dramas.

    I think the Daytime Emmys won’t reverse their actions, especially, that they have already granted an entire night for the Digital Dramas ceremony. But even looking at that ceremony, there is actually much more competition, than the four network dramas. In fact, I believe they are is over ten to twenty digital shows, who submit to the digital drama categories. Wouldn’t it be interesting if they competed with the network dramas, and how it would actually become a competition in the drama, writing, and directing categories, rather than seemingly being a participation award, as the same four network dramas, are the only ones getting nominated each year?

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    EmmyLoser
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    #1203594261

    Thanks for clearing that up, ericjoseph33. I thought that was what I’d read when the rules were released, but it’s been a while and I hadn’t gone back and checked. The competition for the digital dramas does seem a lot more fun with more shows in competition.

    It would probably help the integrity of the Emmys a little if one of the four network soaps really screwed the pooch on submissions next year and was left out of one of the major categories, to remind people that the nomination isn’t automatic. You see it happen in the craft categories, but it hasn’t yet happened in series, writing or directing since we’ve been down to four.

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    alokin
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    #1203599266

    That not quite accurate. If you look at the 2019-2020 Rulebook for the Daytime Emmys, see:

    https://daytimeemmys.dmds.com/Content/documents/GeneralRulesandProcedures.pdf

    it states that “performers in digital dramas ages 25 and under are eligible to enter the Lead and Supporting Digital Drama acting categories” as the Younger Performer category is only reserved for the network dramas.

    My bad. Thx for clarifying. As I’m not that familiar (outside of The Bay) with most of the nominated digital dramas and performers therein, perhaps you could point out to me which younger performers (age 25 or under) you feel were deserving of a nomination (or worthy of pre-nom recognition)?

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    alokin
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    #1203599272

    I think the Daytime Emmys won’t reverse their actions, especially, that they have already granted an entire night for the Digital Dramas ceremony. But even looking at that ceremony, there is actually much more competition, than the four network dramas. In fact, I believe they are is over ten to twenty digital shows, who submit to the digital drama categories. Wouldn’t it be interesting if they competed with the network dramas, and how it would actually become a competition in the drama, writing, and directing categories, rather than seemingly being a participation award, as the same four network dramas, are the only ones getting nominated each year?

    I’m not following the reasoning behind your notion that the four network drama serials are simply handed nominations gratis, in the same vein as a participation prize. Each drama series *earned* its nomination based on merit (with the quality of the work to back it up). True, these four are the only remaining broadcast dramas, but they also happen to be the best of the daytime drama medium, hence why they’ve survived this long. It’s also why the best drama series category is still a highly competitive field despite there being only four possible contenders. I’d be against the idea of allowing the digital dramas to compete in the best drama series race. Alone from a production standpoint, with the network dramas typically churning out an impressive 250+ episodes in a given year as opposed to the just 25 or so episodes in a typical season of a digital drama, it just wouldn’t make for a level playing field.

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    ericjoseph33
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    I’m not following the reasoning behind your notion that the four network drama serials are simply handed nominations gratis, in the same vein as a participation prize. Each drama series *earned* its nomination based on merit (with the quality of the work to back it up). True, these four are the only remaining broadcast dramas, but they also happen to be the best of the daytime drama medium, hence why they’ve survived this long. It’s also why the best drama series category is still a highly competitive field despite there being only four possible contenders. I’d be against the idea of allowing the digital dramas to compete in the best drama series race. Alone from a production standpoint, with the network dramas typically churning out an impressive 250+ episodes in a given year as opposed to the just 25 or so episodes in a typical season of a digital drama, it just wouldn’t make for a level playing field.

    I see your reasoning and respect it. You did bring a lot of good points, and that is why the Academy thought against these digital dramas competing with the soaps.

    But I guess these are one of the things we got to agree to disagree. Having the same four shows nominated every single year does not seem like “merit” to me; it feels very much like a participation award as there are the only four ones on the air.  at least if one show was left off, and there were three nominees; the “participation” aspect award would be left.

    God forbid if one of four soaps gets canned in the next years; we would be down to three? That gonna be a little bit ridiculous. I still believe the Daytime Emmys should celebrate the soaps no matter how many of them they are; they are still one of the most hard-working people in the industry.

    But the thing is as well, Primetime Shows, in the Drama categories, may not have the 250 to 5 episodes ratio, but they still have the 25 episodes to 8 episodes ratio. There is still a large ratio there, and online and network still get to compete with one another. Plus to your point about the “level playing field”,  the Soaps don’t submit all 250 episodes; they submit only two episodes. The digital dramas can do the same. Same with performer categories, it is ALL about the reels that the 13-20 minute reel these actors can provide; that is all one is judged by. In fact, Heather Tom from B&B, was “recurring” character at best in 2019, and still managed to be awarded the Lead Actress category for her two week story. If the “level-playing field” was fair, she would have not been nominated, or let alone win in that category. But because she submitted the best reel that showed off her acting skills; she still won.

    So my logic is unless the soaps are being judged on ALL 250 episodes, and not a reel that is put together based on just two episodes, the digital dramas and soaps can compete with another. Plus they are already competing against each other in a lot of the technical categories, so might as well do so, for all categories across the board.

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    alokin
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    #1203604998

    ^^^ Again, I don’t understand where this concept of a participation award as it relates to the Emmys is coming from. Voters are *not* obligated to nominate x, y or z. Trust me, if the quality was lacking to some degree in any one of the daytime dramas, they wouldn’t just nominate it regardless. The past year saw all four shows rewarded with a nomination because each brought something interesting and creative to the table, and earned its place on the ballot. And with a competition that close and no clear frontrunner, it makes for a very exciting race.

    I’m curious (and I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but considering you opened this thread…), which of the four dramas would you have deemed not worthy of a nomination? Which digital drama(s) would you have nominated in their place?

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