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Daytime Emmys: Should the Digital Dramas Compete with the Soaps @ Daytime Emmys?

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Daytime Emmys: Should the Digital Dramas Compete with the Soaps @ Daytime Emmys?
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    EmmyLoser
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    #1203605273

    This is an interesting discussion, and I like getting to the root of what the considerations are here.

    I’m not sure the comparison of streaming shows to network shows really holds up in the same way for daytime as it does for primetime. I suppose with primetime, you have had the added benefit of a bridge of cable shows. The leap between 24-episode seasons with episodes that all follow basically the same format and are the same length and eight-episode seasons where the episodes kind of do whatever they want and lengths can vary wildly don’t feel as different because there shows on cable that may have 12 to 16 episode with lengths that are slightly variable. I guess daytime shows have no such bridge. So the jump between having to produce a show every day all year and making 10 episodes whenever they’re ready to go feels extremely different, especially since most daytime stories play out over many more episodes than a digital drama may have in a season.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203605859

    ^^^ Again, I don’t understand where this concept of a participation award as it relates to the Emmys is coming from. Voters are *not* obligated to nominate x, y or z. Trust me, if the quality was lacking to some degree in any one of the daytime dramas, they wouldn’t just nominate it regardless. The past year saw all four shows rewarded with a nomination because each brought something interesting and creative to the table, and earned its place on the ballot. And with a competition that close and no clear frontrunner, it makes for a very exciting race. I’m curious (and I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but considering you opened this thread…), which of the four dramas would you have deemed not worthy of a nomination? Which digital drama(s) would you have nominated in their place?

    I am not saying it is an actual participation award. Because I agree as you said, it is based on merit and that how Emmy voters nominate shows. I am just stating that to all outsiders and just individuals looking on, there is certainly the APPEARANCE of the show looking like participation show, as it just “appears” that the voters just nominated all four shows that were on the ballot.

    I don’t think you fully understand the intention of my post, I never stated (I apologize if that seems to be my intention) that one of the four shows were not worthy of a nomination or one of the digital dramas should have replaced one of the shows in the ballot. In fact, if it was up to me, every category would have a minimum of five nominees or more in the categories; the more shows celebrated the better. All the years, any category had four nominees, it unreasonably bothered and frustrated me so much aha. Like a dream ballot, would be having the four daytime shows plus two other digital drama shows in the nomination circle, or if based on the episodic reels submission, one of the daytime shows lost votes and one of the digital shows proves to be more worthy according to the voters, so be it. It is a competition after all.

    I just don’t think they need to separate themselves into different categories. It is more expensive to the Daytime Emmys with the addition of more trophies and even has to create a distinct ceremony for them. They should just have all the actors/producers/writers from the digital shows be part of the main ceremony as well, by also allowing them to submit with the soap operas.

    I am just missing the times, where the Daytime Emmys in the 1990s, had over ten soaps on the air. Or even 15 years ago, when there were nine, or ten years ago, where they were six. There was much more excitement to the Daytime Emmys, and the auditorium is not looking too empty as it has been looking in the past few years (Daytime Emmys should really hire seat fillers) All the soaps stars would fill up a theatre. Even in a lot of the Digital shows are produced by known primetime stars, that could attend the show and again add to the excitement, and maybe help bring it back to television, and thus back to its glory days as they were ten years ago.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203605887

    This is an interesting discussion, and I like getting to the root of what the considerations are here. I’m not sure the comparison of streaming shows to network shows really holds up in the same way for daytime as it does for primetime. I suppose with primetime, you have had the added benefit of a bridge of cable shows. The leap between 24-episode seasons with episodes that all follow basically the same format and are the same length and eight-episode seasons where the episodes kind of do whatever they want and lengths can vary wildly don’t feel as different because there shows on cable that may have 12 to 16 episode with lengths that are slightly variable. I guess daytime shows have no such bridge. So the jump between having to produce a show every day all year and making 10 episodes whenever they’re ready to go feels extremely different, especially since most daytime stories play out over many more episodes than a digital drama may have in a season.

    I totally understand your logic, and reasoning behind such comparison. I think that why the Daytime Emmys in the first place are hesitant to even lump the categories in the first place was due to the episodic element.  However, if we go by the episodic logic of why we can’t have them compete together in the same category; they need to be a little more consistent with that. Even with the performer categories. Maybe having an episodic rule, on whom we consider Lead or Supporting? But the issue with that is that some actors may have a high number of episodes, but still, be a complete supporting character within the story, so having actors/shows submit the category they best feel represented makes sense.

    For instance, in the 2015 Emmys, Billy Miller was nominated for Lead Actor but had only appeared on Y&R for a month. If we go by such an episode reasoning, even though, Miller should not have been considered a lead, and not even supporting, but a guest performer at best. (I know that in 2015, it was a new category and only a new character could submit).

    I just don’t find it necessary for them to be in distinct categories, where all digital shows could easily submit with the soaps. They have already started it doing with some of the technical categories, and based again, on the fact, that soaps only submit two episodes reels.  I know performers get a little more freedom where they could submit more than two episodes, but it usually just little segments, and the reels only ended up being a maximum of 20 minutes. Would it really be completely unfair, if we lumped all of them together?

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    Daytimeemmyfan
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    #1203606531

    I have to agree with the sentiment that the Emmys are over. The best performers are no longer getting recognized for the most part, and many top performers are not even around. I keep reading how MW keeps losing (Valentine’s production has always been OTT), and the last four years it’s to a Bell soap actress. Idk if block voting is still a thing or not, but those two soaps make up half the slate. Tamara Braun fifteen years ago had a hard time getting a nomination when she was in her most high-profile role, and yet she’s a two-time emmy winner.

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    alokin
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    #1203606780

    I am not saying it is an actual participation award. Because I agree as you said, it is based on merit and that how Emmy voters nominate shows. I am just stating that to all outsiders and just individuals looking on, there is certainly the APPEARANCE of the show looking like participation show, as it just “appears” that the voters just nominated all four shows that were on the ballot.

    I feel I’m getting a clearer picture now of what you’re trying to say, though why go through the trouble of arguing from the perspective of someone not familiar with the Emmys process (and quite frankly, why should that matter?) when you yourself believe the opposite to be true.

    But moving on, I think EmmyLoser has hit the nail right on the head in highlighting why the primetime comparison of streaming shows to network shows may not be the best model by which to restructure the daytime series categories. Perhaps another (less sophisticated, but at least it drives the point home) way of looking at it is, the live-action and animated short films compete in their own distinct categories at the Oscars and are not eligible to be entered into the Best Picture race where only feature-length films compete. Along that note, the network daytime dramas and digital series are also two completely different animals and cannot be lumped together in the same category for the sake of simplifying the competition.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203607111

    I have to agree with the sentiment that the Emmys are over. The best performers are no longer getting recognized for the most part, and many top performers are not even around. I keep reading how MW keeps losing (Valentine’s production has always been OTT), and the last four years it’s to a Bell soap actress. Idk if block voting is still a thing or not, but those two soaps make up half the slate. Tamara Braun fifteen years ago had a hard time getting a nomination when she was in her most high-profile role, and yet she’s a two-time emmy winner.

    I don’t think the Emmys are over, we should still celebrate actors and actresses who work very hard, and put on amazing performances day-in-day-out. They work harder than most primetime/network shows and movies, when they produce many episodes a year, and deserve the respect.

    Also, I for one, have never been part of wagon that Maura West, is “robbed” actress of her Emmy; West has already three on her mantel, and one for her current role. She has been nominated every single year since 2015 (with the exception of 2017 because she did not submit herself). She is honestly one of the most nominated and decorated actresses in the industry. The women who have beaten deserved their award, and with the exception of Heather Tom, had not garnered any awards, and had pay their dues, to eventually win one. West is going to win again in the future.

    However, I  do agree that is it quite ironic, that Tamara Braun, has won two Emmys for playing “basic” roles, but her high profile one, she only got a single nomination back in 2004. I think it is the fact, that Braun, knows how to put a reel together. It is all about the reels at the Daytime Emmys.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203607118

    I have to agree with the sentiment that the Emmys are over. The best performers are no longer getting recognized for the most part, and many top performers are not even around. I keep reading how MW keeps losing (Valentine’s production has always been OTT), and the last four years it’s to a Bell soap actress. Idk if block voting is still a thing or not, but those two soaps make up half the slate. Tamara Braun fifteen years ago had a hard time getting a nomination when she was in her most high-profile role, and yet she’s a two-time emmy winner.

    Also, a Bell soap actress, who has been unfairly treated for the past seven years, was Sharon Case, from Y&R, this woman has been putting amazing yearly performance, and reaches the pre-nominations list every single year, but never manages to be on the final ballot. I think Case, may be the one that suffers from “block voting” if that is still a thing.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203607173

    I feel I’m getting a clearer picture now of what you’re trying to say, though why go through the trouble of arguing from the perspective of someone not familiar with the Emmys process (and quite frankly, why should that matter?) when you yourself believe the opposite to be true. But moving on, I think EmmyLoser has hit the nail right on the head in highlighting why the primetime comparison of streaming shows to network shows may not be the best model by which to restructure the daytime series categories. Perhaps another (less sophisticated, but at least it drives the point home) way of looking at it is, the live-action and animated short films compete in their own distinct categories at the Oscars and are not eligible to be entered into the Best Picture race where only feature-length films compete. Along that note, the network daytime dramas and digital series are also two completely different animals and cannot be lumped together in the same category for the sake of simplifying the competition.

    But the thing is, is that the Daytime Emmys are already lumping the network daytime dramas and digital series in multiple of their technical categories. In fact, there at least five categories in which they can compete with one another. This includes casting, lightning, music direction, costume design, and art direction etc… Out of curiosity, would you prefer that next year, they forgo such structure and that they separate the soaps and the online shows? Because, I am sure, casting for a drama series is very different than casting for a digital series, because you only have to cast persons for ten episodes, and the cast is often much smaller? I am sure as well that costume designing for only 10-25 episodes, is not similar to designing for 250 plus episodes.  Without reiterating myself, these categories are just based on the reel and episodes. The ways the Daytime Emmys work is based on the real,  whichever series submits the best episodes that shows off the best skill; they are awarded.

    So I guess what I am trying to state, is that the Daytime Emmys have a consistency issue. Why are they “picking” and “choosing” which categories the online shows and daytime dramas can compete with one another, and which ones they cannot? I am saying if they won’t lump them together, in the drama, writing, and performer categories, so why are they doing it in the technical categories? I am sure, they did not introduce separate and distinct categories, so they can simplify it, and to as well allowed the digital series to be judged in these types of categories. To me, it should be either they don’t lump them together at all, or they put them together in all categories across the board. I would prefer the latter, but again, if it becomes more consistent, then I could respect it.

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    syrus80
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    #1203611181

    They should not be competing against the regular soaps. And Younger Performer needs to go back to being Male and Female again.

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    ericjoseph33
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    #1203611279

    They should not be competing against the regular soaps. And Younger Performer needs to go back to being Male and Female again.

    I agree that they should go back into separate between actors and actresses. Whoever made that choice, made a bottom-tier decision. Especially, since these categories had been on, since 1985, and to just suddenly abolish such categories is a little ridiculous. However, I could appreciate the fact that they are trying to be more progressive, and more gender-neutral.

    I do respect your opinion that they should not be competing against the regular soaps. However, the reason why they decided to combine the categories, was due to the decline of submissions. Hence, if performers in the digital series were able to submit in younger actor/actress, I am sure the number of submissions would increase, and thus could warrant a return of both categories? What do you think?

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