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Should the daytime dramas and webseries compete against each other at the Emmys?

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  • polly8
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    #1202603092

    I completely understand that it would be considered unfair for soaps who create about 256 full hour episodes a year (half an hour in cases of B&B) to compete with web shows who probably make less 20 episodes. But I find it ridiculous that four shows compete with one another every year. All of them get nominated for Best Drama, Writing, and Directing every year. Now it is becoming a participation prize, rather than a prestigious award that comes with merit. I honestly find it pretty dull and predictable.

    I understand that David Michaels, the Senior VP of the Daytime Emmys, said in an article that about 17 web series submitted in the Digital Dramas. That number is pretty staggering. Why don’t we have these shows enter in Drama Series, with the four soaps? I honestly think they should collapse all the “Digital Drama” categories and make them enter in Drama Series.  I honestly believe that the Daytime Emmys would be more respected with such a change.

    I can expect that actors of the soaps would be offended and upset if they lose a nomination against a web show. But like didn’t Billy Miller get nominated for Lead Actor for Y&R one year, when he had appeared on the show for like nine episodes in the entire year because he had left the show? How is that any different?

    Also, I read an article that the Daytime Emmys were going to follow suit with Primetime Emmys, by allowing web shows to compete with the television shows. However, they deemed it was unfair.

    I honestly understand both sides of the equation. With even the sentiments of “unfairness,” I genuinely believe that soaps and web shows should compete in the same categories.

    So why do all of you think (if there is even going to be a show next year, with all the four soaps refusing to enter next year if things don’t change with the fairness of the competition)? Should web shows like The Bay, EastSiders, Ladies of the Lake, be eligible to enter in the Drama Series categories, and hence compete with the four soaps?

    • This topic was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  polly8.
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    FreemanGriffin
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    #1202603112

    I have wondered about this too. The year they allowed pre-nominations for the reboots of AMC and OLTL (with OLTL eventually winning the Best Directing Emmy) is an example. I think there need to be clearer rules around how many episodes constitutes a lead performance, guest performers should all have less than 20 appearances – some of the web shows have less episodes than 20 though. It’s a tough call. Why did they make an exception for AMC and OLTL (online versions)? My memory is that Kelley Missal was the only acting nominee? Robin Strasser, Jerry verDorn, Eric Nelsen, just to name a few, deserved nominations though.

    I am not sure what my opinion is honestly. Mixed.

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    polly8
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    #1202603127

    I believe it was because they had made about 40 episodes that year.

    I read the drama rules, and to be considered a Drama Series, a show must have “at least 35 original episodes must have aired during the 2015 calendar year ”

    Thus, I am assuming that as long as a show has 35 episodes, they can enter with the four soaps.

    But no web series is usually more than 35 episodes, except for the year the reboots of OLTL and AMC were allowed to enter.

    I was mixed as well. But honestly, I think overall web shows and soaps could compete against one another.

     

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    PoweR
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    #1202603142

    They do it at the Primetime Emmys, and the fact that there’s only a few TV soaps nowadays should be enough reason to let web series compete in the main categories.

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    polly8
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    #1202603155

    @PoweR I could not agree more. Plus, financially wise for the Daytime Emmys, it is intelligent. They would have fewer Emmys to make and distribute. LOL

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    EmmyLoser
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    #1202603608

    I can understand the pull to want the digital dramas competing with the four network shows, but I just think the episode counts are too different for that to be reasonable. I know that the rules did let the online versions of AMC and OLTL compete with the network shows based on their episode count, and I would guess it was also inspired by the fact that AMC and OLTL were established soaps that were moving to a different platform after being on a network for decades, and stunting them into a digital category at that point would have felt wrong, especially since they were still, in many ways, trying to stay as close to the previous style and feel as they could.

    I don’t watch any of the digital soaps, but at this point I’m a little unclear on how it’s even determined that some of these shows should be competing for Daytime Emmys rather than just being eligible for Primetime Emmys. Looking at a show like Ladies of the Lake, which was nominated for outstanding digital drama series, there were apparently four episodes for the season, released on Amazon. What makes it a digital daytime drama rather than a primetime mini-series?

    But I totally get it. It does seem crazy having a whole swath of awards categories for just four shows.

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    polly8
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    #1202605423

    Yeah, I understand that the episode counts creates dysfunction, and makes it quite unreasonable. But again, having six acting and two arts categories (without counting the multiple other creative arts fields: casting, hair/makeup, scenic design) that only FOUR shows can enter, to me is borderline ridiculous. I find that it is more reasonable to have them compete in the same way the Primetime Emmys do it by having online shows and soaps eligible to enter in the same categories, so it is an ACTUAL COMPETITION, not a participation prize.

    I mean if web series begin actually winning awards against the soaps, it could inspire TPTB of the soaps to improve the quality of their production, rendering it more seamless, and more watchable for the viewers.

    Well, to answer your question, @emmyloser, concerning Ladies of the Lake, is because the Daytime Emmy rules allow web shows of any type or episode count to either submit in the Primetime Emmys or the Daytime Emmys, NOT both. Thus, evidently, those who submit in the Daytime Emmys believe that they have much more of a chance of earning a nomination if they enter in the daytime portion of the Emmys rather the more known Primetime.

    I still find it quite compelling, that around seventeen shows submitted in the digital drama categories. IMAGINE if those 17 shows would be allowed to participate in the main categories, how much more interesting the Award show, predictions, and the entire event would be?  There would be 21 shows fighting for the honor of Outstanding Drama Series, rather than FOUR.

    I honestly believe the integrity and prestigiousness of the award itself would be restored with such a move.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  polly8.
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    SoapFan88
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    #1202605745

    I don’t understand why these shows are “Daytime” television shows. Frankly I think the digital awards should remain separate…I’ve watched a few and there are no acting performances that stand up to those on television.

    There’s also a major issue with block/loyalty voting if the categories are combined. The digital shows, wanting to earn legitimacy, will all support each other + vote for their own actors despite the performances not being up to par.

    In short, I don’t think it’s fair for a digital actress off of one of these mediocre shows to have the same award as Erika Slezak, or Kim Zimmer, etc. It wouldn’t “restore prestigiousness…” it would make Slezak/Zimmer/etc’s well-deserved awards mean less, honestly.

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    polly8
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    #1202606121

    @soapfan88  The same can be said with soaps. There are some acting performances on the daytime dramas, that are terrible and weak compared to those digital shows. IMHO

    Also, Daytime Emmys have always run like that, even with the soaps. Winners are never base on merit, some winners usually campaign, and there is always the presence of block voting. It is what it is. Block voting cannot be introduced in the system when it is always been a “thing” in this award system.

    I get your point to be honest with the whole Slezak/Kimmer thing, honestly. But once again, these women won when there were multiple soaps on air, there were at least ten or more. No offense to the recent winners, but look at the “younger” categories, for instance, their wins already mean LITTLE,  because they automatically are entered during the Blue Ribbon round, due to the fact that, only about like eight actors in the entire community of soaps submit in those categories. Why? Because FOUR shows are only allowed to submit,

    Thus, allowing soaps and web shows to participate in the same categories, just might make the Award show more reasonable and taken seriously. JMHO

     

     

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    EmmyLoser
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    #1202606221

    The only real way to restore this apparently bygone prestige to the soap awards at the Daytime Emmys is to restore that prestige to the soaps themselves, which would include there being more than four of them on the air. That’s not happening, and I really don’t see there is anything to be gained by somehow creating this uneven competition between broadcast shows and digital shows. I realize they currently compete in analogous categories, but they are very different things. I’d sooner compete a soap against a primetime drama like Dynasty or This Is Us than the digital shows. And much like it’s hard to imagine a reasonable way for these shows to compete with the broadcast soaps, it’s even harder finding a reasonable way for the broadcast soaps to compete with the digital shows. Not only do I think the idea wouldn’t have the intended effect, I just don’t see how it could work.

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    robbalto
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    Polly8, thank you for starting this thread. It’s a timely discussion on a topic that needs to be addressed.

    Trying to look at this objectively, my take on this is pretty much the same as EmmyLoser’s. There is just no way to compare a digital soap with a broadcast daytime serial, for pretty much the same reason that daytime dramas do not compete with prime time dramas. Daytime broadcast serials have the Herculean task of producing about 250 episodes a year. To compete with a show that produces one tenth of that number —or less— is inherently unfair.

    Despite my reservations, the mixing of these genres may come to pass, especially if any more of the current broadcast soaps are cancelled.

    One possible compromise would be to mix the nominees for acting. But for Drama Series, I do not see any way to open up the competition. As long as there are at least 3 daytime soaps remaining, I think it is essential that they not compete with digitally-based shows for Drama Series. If we get down to two broadcast shows, then I say to go ahead and mix them.

    Although the competition is not as extensive as it used to be, I think it’s unfair to call any of the awards a participation prize. If you add up the contract, recurring, and guest actors who appear on the four daytime soaps, the group comprises well over a hundred performers. Even in the Younger Actor and Actress categories, a pre-nom may be a slam dunk but an actual nomination is not a given. And most of the categories are still very competitive.

    On a personal note, the Daytime Emmys used to be one of my favorite events of the year. My enjoyment has dwindled considerably over the years, but I still like the awards. The field has always been relatively finite when compared to other award shows, and I like that because it’s comparatively easy to make an informed decision. If the field opens up to digital dramas, I will probably lose interest much the way I have lost interest in the Prime Time Emmys. But it doesn’t really matter what I think. Unless a visionary finds a way to reinvigorate the daytime serial, a blending of broadcast and streaming is probably inevitable.

    Thanks again for starting this interesting and apposite topic. I appreciate everyone’s contributions and the respectful manner in which the topic was explored.

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