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Best Supporting Winner v. Best Lead Winner – Category Fraud Edition

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  • SHT L
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    #1202567907

    I was thinking about years in which there is category fraud or one could argue there was category fraud in one of the supporting categories where one performance just steamrolled the other nominees throughout the whole awards season and won the Oscar. If that actor/actress was put in the lead category instead as many would argue that they belonged, would they have won the Oscar?

    An example of this actually happening was when Kate Winslet was winning awards for Best Supporting Actress for The Reader and in a rare moment, the Academy actually nominated her for the “right” category in Lead Actress and Winslet ended up prevailing over the likes of Hathaway and Streep who seemed to be winning all the precursors before that. This sort of made for a more exciting awards because had Winslet been nominated in Supporting Actress and then nominated for Lead Actress for Revolutionary Road, we could have easily seen how that would have played out thanks to the precursors (giving Winslet the Supp. win and letting the other contenders duke it out for lead actress with Streep most likely coming out on top).

    To me, the most recent match-up would be Viola Davis v. Emma Stone. Davis was arguably playing a lead female role (no question she was like the only female character in the vast majority of that film). We all know how Emma Stone willed herself to win that Oscar by playing the game where by Oscar time her win was inevitable despite early competition from Portman and then from Huppert. I think only Davis would have been able to stop Emma Stone’s trajectory but I wonder if Davis would have pulled more votes away from people voting for Huppert and Portman rather than those who voted for Stone. If Davis competed against Stone, who would have come out on top?

    In other years where I felt there was some category fraud I think the Lead Actress winner would still come out on top. I think Alicia Vikander would have lost to Brie Larson. Jennifer Connelly most likely would have lost to Halle Berry as that happened at SAG (I forgot Nicole Kidman was not nominated for Best Actress there). Mira Sorvino would have lost to Susan Sarandon. Jennifer Hudson would have lost to Helen Mirren. Marisa Tomei would have lost to Emma Thompson. Geena Davis would have lost to Jodie Foster.

    I haven’t really done the Actor side yet, but I wonder if the category fraud thing is more likely to happen with actresses since the way women’s roles can be written, even leading female roles can seem supporting or supporting the lead man. The one example that came to my mind was Dev Patel in Lion but he didn’t win the Oscar.

    What other examples would make good match-ups?

    • This topic was modified 4 months ago by  SHT L.
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    Gain
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    #1202567942

    I don’t understand why people keep saying that Connelly was lead in A Beautiful Mind. She was clearly supporting in it. The movie was entirely about John Nash.

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    AwardsConnect
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    #1202567947

    I fear Stone would’ve still prevailed over Davis. 🙁

    THE OSCAR 100 (#55-51): Kim Stanley, Teri Garr, Susan Tyrrell, Patricia Neal and Meryl Streep

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    SHT L
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    #1202568023

    I don’t understand why people keep saying that Connelly was lead in A Beautiful Mind. She was clearly supporting in it. The movie was entirely about John Nash.

    I guess in the same way Felicity Jones was considered for and nominated for Best Actress for The Theory of Everything and other long-suffering but supportive wife roles that have been nominated for Lead as opposed to supporting. Those types of roles tend to go either way.

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    Honey
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    #1202568048

    I don’t understand why people keep saying that Connelly was lead in A Beautiful Mind. She was clearly supporting in it. The movie was entirely about John Nash.

    I guess in the same way Felicity Jones was considered for and nominated for Best Actress for The Theory of Everything and other long-suffering but supportive wife roles that have been nominated for Lead as opposed to supporting. Those types of roles tend to go either way.

    not the same. The Theory of Everything was based off the memoir of Felicity Jones’ character. So Felicity was going to be lead and can’t go supporting.

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    M: The Original
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    #1202568061

    Tomei and previous category winner Ruehl were rightfully so campaigned supporting. LA film critics gave Ruehl their lead actress prize.

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    JROCK1772
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    #1202568084

    Viola had the momentum of having been so close (twice!) prior to her nomination. She would have won over Stone handily had she been entered in the Lead Actress race. Affleck was also slightly ahead of Denzel, so voters might have gravitated towards her to reward his work for Fences.

    In a perfect world, Streep would’ve won #3 in 2009, Davis would’ve won in 2011, Portman or Huppert would have won in 2016, and Michelle Williams would have snagged the supporting trophy.

    For male category fraud, Jim Broadbent probably should have been nominated in the lead category for Iris, replacing Sean Penn’s atrocious nomination for I Am Sam, and allowing Ian McKellen to snag an Oscar and giving either Brando or Law another nod.

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    SHT L
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    #1202568167

    I don’t understand why people keep saying that Connelly was lead in A Beautiful Mind. She was clearly supporting in it. The movie was entirely about John Nash.

    I guess in the same way Felicity Jones was considered for and nominated for Best Actress for The Theory of Everything and other long-suffering but supportive wife roles that have been nominated for Lead as opposed to supporting. Those types of roles tend to go either way.

    not the same. The Theory of Everything was based off the memoir of Felicity Jones’ character. So Felicity was going to be lead and can’t go supporting.

    Yeah but the characters the role they played in their films were pretty similar. I also think there are times where movies were based on people’s memoirs about a more famous counterpart and they end up playing second fiddle in their own story. We also had cases in which movies were in the POV of a particular character and every other character is seen through their eyes and yet the other person is considered the lead role.

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    Anonymous
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    #1202568194

    Viola had the momentum of having been so close (twice!) prior to her nomination. She would have won over Stone handily had she been entered in the Lead Actress race. Affleck was also slightly ahead of Denzel, so voters might have gravitated towards her to reward his work for Fences.

    In a perfect world, Streep would’ve won #3 in 2009, Davis would’ve won in 2011, Portman or Huppert would have won in 2016, and Michelle Williams would have snagged the supporting trophy.

    For male category fraud, Jim Broadbent probably should have been nominated in the lead category for Iris, replacing Sean Penn’s atrocious nomination for I Am Sam, and allowing Ian McKellen to snag an Oscar and giving either Brando or Law another nod.

    Do you really believe in what you’ve just written? Like REALLY? These are Oscars we’re talking about. They are voted by mostly old straight men who vote with their cocks. Do you really think they would have voted for middle-aged ordinary-looking woman over hot young thing they would like to fuck in a big box office hit? There’s no way. Viola would have got nominated but wouldn’t win. She wouldn’t even win GG. Huppert is like one of the ultimate HFPA dreams. Viola made a right decision in terms of winning when she went supporting.

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    forwardswill
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    #1202568196

    I think Davis would have won against Stone. There was a clear momentum for her to win while people just loved Stone’s film – and even that was not nearly enough in the end.

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    Leelee Washington
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    #1202568256

    Viola had the momentum of having been so close (twice!) prior to her nomination. She would have won over Stone handily had she been entered in the Lead Actress race. Affleck was also slightly ahead of Denzel, so voters might have gravitated towards her to reward his work for Fences. In a perfect world, Streep would’ve won #3 in 2009, Davis would’ve won in 2011, Portman or Huppert would have won in 2016, and Michelle Williams would have snagged the supporting trophy. For male category fraud, Jim Broadbent probably should have been nominated in the lead category for Iris, replacing Sean Penn’s atrocious nomination for I Am Sam, and allowing Ian McKellen to snag an Oscar and giving either Brando or Law another nod.

    Do you really believe in what you’ve just written? Like REALLY? These are Oscars we’re talking about. They are voted by mostly old straight men who vote with their cocks. Do you really think they would have voted for middle-aged ordinary-looking woman over hot young thing they would like to fuck in a big box office hit? There’s no way. Viola would have got nominated but wouldn’t win. She wouldn’t even win GG. Huppert is like one of the ultimate HFPA dreams. Viola made a right decision in terms of winning when she went supporting.

    I guess that theory went out the window with Frances McDormand vs Saoirse Ronan or Jessica Tandy over “hot” Michelle Pfeiffer. Hmmm….methinks I smell the stench of “the white gaze”. Viola winning in lead was possible.

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    Jack J.
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    #1202568266

    I fear Stone would’ve still prevailed over Davis. ????

    THE OSCAR 100 (#55-51): Kim Stanley, Teri Garr, Susan Tyrrell, Patricia Neal and Meryl Streep

    Who wins supporting actress then?

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    Honey
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    #1202568281

    Who wins supporting actress then?

    The biggest victim of the movie who was forced to rock that Dora the Explorer haircut and project emotions without snots

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    RobertPius
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    #1202568465

    I don’t understand why people keep saying that Connelly was lead in A Beautiful Mind. She was clearly supporting in it. The movie was entirely about John Nash.

    Probably because she was nominated at SAG for lead but that was a clerical error. There were a bunch of cases in the early years of the SAG awards (Joan Allen, Nixon; Benecio Del Torro, Traffic) where the agent or PR person simply filled out the form wrong and put them in the lead category.

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    RobertPius
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    #1202568469

    Viola had the momentum of having been so close (twice!) prior to her nomination. She would have won over Stone handily had she been entered in the Lead Actress race. Affleck was also slightly ahead of Denzel, so voters might have gravitated towards her to reward his work for Fences.

    In a perfect world, Streep would’ve won #3 in 2009, Davis would’ve won in 2011, Portman or Huppert would have won in 2016, and Michelle Williams would have snagged the supporting trophy.

    For male category fraud, Jim Broadbent probably should have been nominated in the lead category for Iris, replacing Sean Penn’s atrocious nomination for I Am Sam, and allowing Ian McKellen to snag an Oscar and giving either Brando or Law another nod.

    Do you really believe in what you’ve just written? Like REALLY? These are Oscars we’re talking about. They are voted by mostly old straight men who vote with their cocks. Do you really think they would have voted for middle-aged ordinary-looking woman over hot young thing they would like to fuck in a big box office hit? There’s no way. Viola would have got nominated but wouldn’t win. She wouldn’t even win GG. Huppert is like one of the ultimate HFPA dreams. Viola made a right decision in terms of winning when she went supporting.

    I disagree. It isn’t always a beauty pageant. Following that logic that they would just vote for Stone because she was hotter than Davis wouldn’t you have to also expect them to vote for Michelle Williams over Davis? (or Margot Robie over Frances McDormand this year?)

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