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Cases Of Category Fraud: Oscars

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    Karen Gill.
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    #1204544072

    Discuss cases of Category Frauds in Oscar/Awards History.

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    tiermakeracco17
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    #1204545322

    The “Best Animated Feature” category pretty much only exists to give Oscars to Disney/Pixar. Voters have gone on record saying they don’t watch all (if any) of the nominees.

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    Sir Pierce
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    #1204545742

    Here’s an interesting one…

    Steve Carell – Best Actor (Foxcatcher)

    Channing Tatum is easily the lead. The only reason Carell ended up in lead is because Ruffalo was getting praise, too. And Channing Tatum’s reactions weren’t as positive as Carell’s or Ruffalo’s by a long stretch.

    The fraud here was so obvious that a lot of Award bodies, such as BAFTA, I believe, posited Carell in Supporting.

    Also, it’s pretty annoying because they snubbed Ralph Fiennes and Jake Gyllenhaal because of the fraud and, in Supporting Actor, Robert Duvall was clearly a filler nomination, which Steve Carell could easily have taken off him.

    A very annoying young man, who loves cinema. 🙂

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/pierce_sir
    Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/11higuys/

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    Jacob "Oscar Boy" Boe
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    #1204545855

    Here’s an interesting one… Steve Carell – Best Actor (Foxcatcher) Channing Tatum is easily the lead. The only reason Carell ended up in lead is because Ruffalo was getting praise, too. And Channing Tatum’s reactions weren’t as positive as Carell’s or Ruffalo’s by a long stretch. The fraud here was so obvious that a lot of Award bodies, such as BAFTA, I believe, posited Carell in Supporting. Also, it’s pretty annoying because they snubbed Ralph Fiennes and Jake Gyllenhaal because of the fraud and, in Supporting Actor, Robert Duvall was clearly a filler nomination, which Steve Carell could easily have taken off him.

    Foxcatcher Screentime

    Channing Tatum: 57.33%

    Steve Carell: 39.18%

    Mark Ruffalo: 28.62%

    This is a good example of a secondary lead (Carell). Is Carell supporting somebody? Yes. Tatum. But he’s also leading somebody (Ruffalo). So he fits into either category. Like a JLaw in SLP or a Davis in Fences or a Winslet in The Reader. They can be campaigned anywhere, without it being fraud.

    Oscars FYC:
    Picture: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Director: Jane Campion, Denis Villeneuve
    Actor: Benedict Cumberbatch
    Supporting Actress: Kirsten Dunst, Ruth Negga
    Supporting Actor: Kodi Smit-McPhee, Jesse Plemons
    Adapted Screenplay: Dune, Passing, The Power of the Dog
    Cinematography: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Costume Design: Dune
    Film Editing: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Production Design: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Sound: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Visual Effects: Dune, Free Guy

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    Sir Pierce
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    #1204545867

    Foxcatcher Screentime Channing Tatum: 57.33% Steve Carell: 39.18% Mark Ruffalo: 28.62% This is a good example of a secondary lead (Carell). Is Carell supporting somebody? Yes. Tatum. But he’s also leading somebody (Ruffalo). So he fits into either category. Like a JLaw in SLP or a Davis in Fences or a Winslet in The Reader. They can be campaigned anywhere, without it being fraud.

    I don’t know. Channing Tatum’s got 57.33% screentime… 20% more than Carell basically. And Carell only has 10% on Ruffalo.

    And the way the film is framed from the perspective of Tatum’s character.

    It would be like having Ledger being in Lead Actor for The Dark Knight or Adam Driver in Lead Actor for BlacKKKlansman or Sylvester Stallone for Creed or Jonah Hill for Wall Street or Michael Clarke Duncan for Green Mile or Burt Reynolds for Boogie Nights.

    Like they are the second character after the protagonist, but it isn’t really fair to call them a Lead.

     

    A very annoying young man, who loves cinema. 🙂

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/pierce_sir
    Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/11higuys/

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    TrumpBiden
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    #1204545893

    I really wish to make it fair, awards bodies simply locked lead and supporting based on screentime. The category frauds are so freaking common, it’s insane. If it were a 1 time thing, but we get multiple in a decade, hell even multiple each year. And like a poster mentioned, some actors get snubbed because of this.

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    Manav
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    #1204545897

    Alicia Vikander (The Danish Girl) and Rooney Mara (Carol) for supporting were frauds and so was Julianne Moore (The Hours). All should have been lead.

    Conversely, Viola Davis (Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom) was definitely supporting.

    I don’t know what the category placement of Viola Davis (The Help) should be.

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    Jeffrey Kare
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    #1204546008

    Ethan Hawke being nominated for Best Supporting Actor for Training Day despite being a little more of a lead in that movie than Denzel Washington. While the latter definitely isn’t category fraud, I can see how if the film was competing today, Ethan would probably be campaigned as lead while Denzel would be campaigned in supporting.

    I’d also like to add Melvyn Douglas competing as lead for I Never Sang for My Father with Gene Hackman competing in supporting despite the latter having far more screen time in that movie than the former.

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    laslo
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    #1204546059

    The worst cases in my opinion are those in which another actor is nominated as lead with a smaller screentime for the same movie. For example The Favourite had Emma Stone in supporting with 57 minutes and Olivia Colman in lead with 49 minutes, Carol had Rooney Mara in supporting with 1 hour and 10 minutes and Cate Blanchett in lead with 1 hour and 4 minutes, August: Osage County had Julia Roberts in supporting with 56 minutes and Meryl Streep in lead with 53 minutes, The Hours had Julianne Moore in supporting with 27 minutes and Nicole Kidman in lead with 23 minutes.

    Is very hard to define category fraud, there’s a lot a debate around it and I don’t think screentime as a defining factor for category placement would make it fair. For example in 2015 Jennifer Jason Leigh was nominated for supporting actress for The Hateful Eight, her screentime was 57 minutes which would be more than many best actress winners, however she would never be considered a lead by anyone who actually watched the film because she is a sidekick (btw she was also the antagonist) who gets no character development through out 90% her scenes, on the last parts of the movie she gets to do something on her own that is relevant to the plot but other than that she is just on screen cause she is handcuffed to one of the protagonists played by Kurt Russell (who is in it for 55 minutes, 2 minutes less than her) who would clearly be a lead because during his time on screen his character is being delevoped and actually doing something relevant to the narrative and shaping how the story unfolds. I think it should be evaluated case by case and the academy is smart enough to prevent frauds from happening if they wanted to (I mean Alicia Vikander was nominated in lead for both the Golden Globes and the BAFTAs, so it was a choice from them to place her in supporting).

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    Jeffrey Kare
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    #1204546069

    Similar to how the American Theatre Wing is the group that decides on categories for where certain performances/roles can compete at the Tony Awards, I think the Academy should start doing the same thing. The studios can still have specific categories in mind for where they’d like to campaign the performers, but the Academy should ultimately decide whether or not they agree with that prior to Oscar nomination voting. That way we could have more nominees/winners in the supporting races who are genuinely supporting.

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    Jacob "Oscar Boy" Boe
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    #1204546112

    Is very hard to define category fraud, there’s a lot a debate around it and I don’t think screentime as a defining factor for category placement would make it fair.

    I agree, screentime isn’t perfect for category placement. I think that’s pretty much the consensus. But it is the best thing based in fact/math/stats/whatever. It is the only concrete metric that would actually make sense. If there was a committee like Jeffrey was talking about, there would be controversy, so screentime is really the only alternative option.

    Oscars FYC:
    Picture: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Director: Jane Campion, Denis Villeneuve
    Actor: Benedict Cumberbatch
    Supporting Actress: Kirsten Dunst, Ruth Negga
    Supporting Actor: Kodi Smit-McPhee, Jesse Plemons
    Adapted Screenplay: Dune, Passing, The Power of the Dog
    Cinematography: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Costume Design: Dune
    Film Editing: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Production Design: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Sound: Dune, The Power of the Dog
    Visual Effects: Dune, Free Guy

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    Rachel615
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    #1204546230

    Similar to how the American Theatre Wing is the group that decides on categories for where certain performances/roles can compete at the Tony Awards, I think the Academy should start doing the same thing. The studios can still have specific categories in mind for where they’d like to campaign the performers, but the Academy should ultimately decide whether or not they agree with that prior to Oscar nomination voting. That way we could have more nominees/winners in the supporting races who are genuinely supporting.

    I’m unsure that AMPAS would stand up to pressure from studios and streamers regarding category placements, and I’m unsure that AMPAS wouldn’t want to place certain performers in categories in which they don’t belong for some of the same reasons movie producers sometimes miscategorize performances.

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    Manav
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    #1204546295

    While screentime is a factor,it shouldn’t be the sole judge for placements. Hopkins was lead with a tiny screentime. Meryl Streep (The Devil Wears Prada), Sissy Spacek (In The Bedroom) and Kate Winslet (Little Children) are undisputably the leads of their movies with less than 33% of screentime.

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    Newbie
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    #1204546365

    Mahershala Ali (Green Book) and Christoph Waltz (Django)  currently are at the top of the chart in terms of Supporting Actors with most screen time in their films. Interesting that both were winning second Oscars. (or convenient.)

     

    Mass is odd this year. How can the whole cast be supporting? No leads? (haven’t seen it btw.)

     

     

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    Jeffrey Kare
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    #1204546726

    Mass is odd this year. How can the whole cast be supporting? No leads? (haven’t seen it btw.)

    I guess it’s similar to what a lot of us speculated with The Trial of the Chicago 7 last year. Some were thinking early on that Sacha Baron Cohen and/or Eddie Redmayne would be campaigned in lead before Netflix ultimately decided that the whole cast were going supporting given the ensemble nature of that film. However, the streaming platform eventually chose to set their main focus on Sacha for a Best Supporting Actor bid. Had they not chosen one at all, it probably would’ve been hard for awards bodies to find a performance from all the men in that movie to single out for nominations. So because of Sacha, it was hard for anyone else in the ensemble to gain any traction.

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