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Does "1917" really deserve to win Visual Effects? Sound?

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    andrew giordano
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    #1203327121

    When I saw this film, I was absolutely stunned by the cinematography and set design. It 100% deserves the win in cinematography, and I could also see it winning production design.  However, I am very surprised to see how much momentum this film is gaining. It is the front runner in best picture, director, cinematography, sound editing, sound mixing and visual effects. There has not been a film with at least 6 number one spots on this site since La La Land in 2016 and Mad Max in 2015, which both admittedly did end up winning most.

    But why exactly should this win visual effects? I have searched and found very few visual effect breakdowns on youtube, which all the other nominees have. Every behind the scenes video I watch shows that all the sets were built. So where exactly do the visual effects factor in? I am completely aware there are probably many that are blind to my eye but nothing stands out. A few practical explosions? A plane crashing? Multiple gunshots? Where is that “stand out” moment? I do not think the argument can be made that “The VFX are so good that you do not even recognize them”. That may be the case, but once again all behind the scenes videos point to the production design and cinematography for making it so visually interesting.

    Every past VFX winner had something going for it: First Man had the flawless recreation of the moon landing, Blade Runner 2049 had its breathtaking futuristic technology and multiple CG doubles, The Jungle Book was all photorealistic CGI besides the kid, Ex Machina had flawless AI effects, Interstellar had mind-blowing space imagery… I could go on. What stands out about 1917? The best article I could find was this website that talks about how one of the biggest struggles for the VFX team was “adding mist” to No Man’s Land. The website also states that the one of the hardest effects to create was George McKay jumping into the river, which was actually 2 shot stitched together to make it look like one which can be watched right here. Its a very commendable choice, but I would say that the VFX work was actually pretty distracting. You could totally tell when it switched from real to a CGI body double. If we ignore cinematography and production values can someone really say with a straight face that 1917 had better visual effects than a movie like The Lion King or Endgame? Im not going to act like those films had perfect visual effects or anything but just watch this VFX breakdown. So overall 1917 has some practical explosions, a clever stitching of 2 scenes and frequent strong compositing but Endgame has all of that plus a Thanos, a professor hulk, space shots, constant CG body doubles, and it has the “portals” scene.  I don’t see how it’s a competition. This is not 1917’s award to win. Every other VFX nominee deserves this over 1917. If you have more information regarding the VFX work in 1917 please share it here because I am confused lol.

    For both sound categories, I think what we did get was acceptable, but lacking compared to every other high regarded war film from past years. That is just due to the fact that overall, 1917 was just lacking in heavy “action” scenes that usually showcase a lot of incredible sound work. Dunkirk had amazing sound design. 1917 had an incredible score, but the sound overall? Didn’t really stand out to me.  It is a weaker year but I see one going to Ford v Ferrari. These categories don’t really confuse me as much as VFX because war films tend to do well here.

    Anyway, I am glad to see 1917 getting recognized for categories I believe to be deserving such as cinematography and directing, but it being predicted to win VFX confuses me. I am still voting Avengers: Endgame; however, I do believe 1917 is looking more likely. Any thoughts?

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    Riley Chow
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    #1203327134

    The visual effects are the basis of the film’s success, but they are indeed the least accomplished technically of the nominees. It is winning not for the stitching of those two particular scenes, but because of the idea that the whole film is stitched. The practical effects are just gravy.

    Its wins in sound firstly follow the same principle. This film sets out not for you to be a spectator, but for you to experience the plot as firsthand as possible, so people recognize that the sound design is going to be more visceral and integral to the experience. Maybe people cannot remember exactly what they liked about the sound, but they know that they got the experience, so the sound must have done its job. The minimal cutting (and exterior setting) also suggests that the recording would have been more of an undertaking than your average film. Finally, war films have a leg up in these categories anyway because of the explosive sound effects.

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    Anthony 🐜
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    #1203327292

    I’d rather 1917 win Visual Effects than have them give the Oscar to The Irishman as some consolation prize. What an absolute disaster that would be. Especially after the Apes films didn’t even win this category. Exorbitantly expensive post production work and that is what they came up with? It would be a complete joke, and I bet you many will not find it funny. The definition of buying an Oscar.

    The Lion King really deserves to win Visual Effects. Disregard whatever feelings you have about the film, the effects drives that film home. A visually elaborate and stunningly shot live-action endeavour.

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    Jason Travis
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    #1203327298

    I think The Lion King is winning. I know 1917 is def the favorite, but I agree that the effects are out of this world.

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    Emil Petrov
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    #1203327364

    There are some hidden visual eefects that nobody knows that are there. Did you know in hew scenes CGI is used to completetly duplicate a scene so it can be cut into the one-shot? Also the scene with the burning village is all visual effects and it is one of the most beautifull scenes of the year. But I agree that it is not the best achevement for th win. I did not like The Lion King, but the CGI was absoultely amazing. This must win.

    As for the sounds. They were amazing all around. Sound Editing I could live it lose, but Mixing is a must. The combination of Effects, ADR, music was amazing.

    PS: also the night window scene is also considered a visual effect. They could have made all the shadow movements with CGI, but they used practical. Visual effect is not only cgi or explosions.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Emil Petrov.
    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Emil Petrov.
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    vinny
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    #1203327665

    Sound I figured was either Ford V Ferarri or 1917 but vissualeffects I figured was between Avengers and 1917

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    Human Bartender
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    #1203327682

    The effects are great, and they advance the story and characters.

    Let’s Go Bucks

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    James Breheney
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    #1203327685

    To quote William Munny from Unforgiven: “It ain’t about deserve”.

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    James Breheney
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    #1203327692

    Avengers: Endgame and The Lion King both have very good visual effects but I feel voters probably think that they’re a dime a dozen because we see CGI-driven films all the time nowadays. Of course this not the case and the people behind these visual effects are very talented and deserve more respect than they get from some people.

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    James Breheney
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    #1203327700

    I know this thread is more about what deserves to win rather than what will win but I don’t think Avengers: Endgame has much of a chance of winning Visual Effects. Not only is this its only nomination but Marvel movies get skunked all the time in this category. I think it’s between 1917 and The Lion King with the former being more likely.

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    Human Bartender
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    #1203327763

    I don’t think the Lion King will come that close since it’s response was so dismal. And like I’ve said, the effects actually play a role in why it wasn’t well received. As realistic as those animals are, they feel devoid of life, and the whole thing ends up looking far less impressive than the original film. If they win, I’d be pissed. Anyway, yesterday I listed Endgame as my runner up in this category, but now I’m thinking of switching it out for The Irishman. Endgame’s effects are great, but if they couldn’t win last year, when the effects were of pretty much the same exact quality, I’m not sure if they can end up taking them this year. And as it was said, I think some people could be turned off by the sheer abundance of CGI. The Rise of Skywalker’s effects looked great as well, but in contrast with the earlier films in the trilogy, there just seems to be a lack of passion (The Last Jedi was extremely divisive, but it still had many people who defended it and praised it with great passion). So if they couldn’t pull it off, I don’t think it can either. And keep in mind, while Last Jedi lost to Blade Runner 49, the much more popular Force Awakens lost to Ex Machina of all things (great effects, but fairly minimalistic, and far less technically impressive than the likes of Star Wars of Mad Max). As I said before, I’m thinking I might give my runner up spot to The Irishman. The effects had a whole lot of talk surrounding them, and they were generally well received. However, I’m wary of putting it in 2nd place, as they still had some criticism (mainly for the youngest de-aging of De Niro), and we’ve already seen this kind of technology before. True not on this kind of scale, but the point still stands. I wasn’t originally predicting 1917, but I feel like, I’m addition to its share of pros, it has much less noticeable cons when compared to its other nominees.

    Let’s Go Bucks

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    andrew giordano
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    #1203328162

    The visual effects are the basis of the film’s success, but they are indeed the least accomplished technically of the nominees. It is winning not for the stitching of those two particular scenes, but because of the idea that the whole film is stitched. The practical effects are just gravy. Its wins in sound firstly follow the same principle. This film sets out not for you to be a spectator, but for you to experience the plot as firsthand as possible, so people recognize that the sound design is going to be more visceral and integral to the experience. Maybe people cannot remember exactly what they liked about the sound, but they know that they got the experience, so the sound must have done its job. The minimal cutting (and exterior setting) also suggests that the recording would have been more of an undertaking than your average film. Finally, war films have a leg up in these categories anyway because of the explosive sound effects.

    Would the stitching of the scenes be more of an editing thing rather than VFX? I know both were involved but editing seemed more prominent. I like your point on the sound though, that’s definitely a factor

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    andrew giordano
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    #1203328178

    There are some hidden visual eefects that nobody knows that are there. Did you know in hew scenes CGI is used to completetly duplicate a scene so it can be cut into the one-shot? Also the scene with the burning village is all visual effects and it is one of the most beautifull scenes of the year. But I agree that it is not the best achevement for th win. I did not like The Lion King, but the CGI was absoultely amazing. This must win. As for the sounds. They were amazing all around. Sound Editing I could live it lose, but Mixing is a must. The combination of Effects, ADR, music was amazing. PS: also the night window scene is also considered a visual effect. They could have made all the shadow movements with CGI, but they used practical. Visual effect is not only cgi or explosions.

    I am aware that there are multiple scenes that utilize VFX that are blind to the eye because they are so well done. But that is a feature that is in every single one of the nominees, it still seems like 1917 had so much less “moments”.

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    TVFan365
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    #1203328191

    Ford v Ferrari deserves to win the sound awards.

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    cinetastic
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    #1203328291

    1917 deserves to win Best Visual Effects more than the Irishman. War-related films usually win Best Sound Categories. Sometimes both the editing and the mixing. Sometimes, just one.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by cinetastic.
    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by cinetastic.
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