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    kaziz
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    #1204537085

    I agree with everyone that Rebecca was great. But Jessica was written a little to non composed for me. She is much more stoic in the book with all the turbulence internalized as a Benet Gesserit, and this is key to her character. This Jessica sure cries a lot. However, this is a small complaint because, again, I see the reason. Without the internal dialogue to demonstrate her internalized fear and conflict that had to be shown somehow, and Rebecca handled it beautifully.

    Being more emotionally forthcoming was true of several characters for the same reason. For instance, having Leto shout the “life of my son” line or snap at Liet and actually state he sees they’re pretty much doomed, which is all restrained while he maintains stoic leadership in the book. But we have to understand where our characters are at. So it’s fine, I just thought Jessica’s could have been a little more dialed back. Ferguson could have told us a lot of the same non-verbally.

    I obviously didn’t love it as much as you did, but I do love your essay 😀

    I gotta say—this is right on the money, but I kinda also feel like… Jessica is fulfilling the new purpose in this film’s narrative that is partly sexist and partly totally understandable—she cries a whole lot because she’s carrying so much of the emotional weight, and also perhaps because it conveys the seriousness of what’s happening, particularly in the Benet Gesserit test scene. That test scene…….it felt a bit strange to put more emphasis on her knowledge of what the test actually is because unlike the last Dune, Timothee sure dealt with the test in a more…um, stereotypically-manly way than I expected lololol, like a few grunts and then a few screams thru the door for….the most pain anyone can possible experience?! I’m not sure the true nature of the test was really came thru there, so I was left seeing Ferguson as the surrogate of conveying its make-or-break nature in a way, and she did it really well. And in that sense, that continuously happens to her for some reason? I get what you mean, but I do think that my own quibbles have to do with a film (script?) that boxes her into carrying the gravitas—and to be entirely fair, my biggest takeaway as I wrote above is that after watching it I’ve realized: sure, Denis can be cerebral and atmospheric and touching but he’s VERY serious and earnest and—100% NOT in a derogatory way—he shares a lot of filmmaker similarities with Christopher Nolan but with far weirder tastes & nowhere near the avant-garde proclivity of David Lynch, or even Frank Herbert tbh. Which is fine and good and dandy, I’m just only now realizing that’s how I need to judge him on those terms, not on somebody else’s terms. See what I mean? He’s more populist than one would expect from somebody whose lifelong dream is to make DUNE, and that’s…fine, that’s who he is as a filmmaker. The Benet Gesserit is actually a good example of what was impacted by that (I kept forgetting that Paul is actually meant to *** because the sheer strangeness of the Benet Gesserit seemed a tad played down for me, so I guess Ferguson is…consistent with that?)

    I don’t think Timothee was very good imo, but for this very earnest version of Dune, he’s adequate I suppose. At the end of the day Paul Atreides is definitely written as a container of a human being as opposed to a full human being (i.e. the Paul of the book WAS just a shadow, so one can hardly blame any actor playing him for not making him a WHOLE PERSON—he’s patently not supposed to be…yet anyway). That said—like…where’s the PAIN, you know? It does perhaps bother me that even a shallow character has to have such a limited emotional range, and I guess Lynch/McLachlan never had that problem because they were going for EXCESS. Regardless, yes totally different film, totally fine—but I think it had the effect of displacing the emotional work and reactiveness to Ferguson a lot of time.

    Also in the film’s climax, she shifted to a much steelier, stoic version of herself, and that sure seemed like a choice (a smart one!) Genuinely not on board with some of the other casting choices but Ferguson, Zendaya, Momoa are well-cast for this world. Isaac, Skarsgard.

    Basically, this Dune is creating its own logic which is Denis’ prerogative. Can’t say I agree with all of it, but it’s what is NEEDED obviously.

    There were some parts that felt a tad exposition-y. Like, for instance, they explain thumpers and make sure to work in that’s what they’re called at least twice. Audiences can be trusted to pick up on things like that with context clues.

    YEAH. I mean, I actually forgive the exposition entirely tbh because on the one hand you have book readers like us and on the other people who are like WHAT IS HAPPENING, WAY TOO MUCH STUFF IS HAPPENING so…mmkay, trying to please everybody maybe, but also, I get it, asking for less exposition feeeeeeels like asking for an entirely different filmmaker and I’m REALLY trying to judge Denis on his terms, so I guess….maybe it’s fine? I dunno. On the other hand, unlike you I thought “desert power” was a little…goofy…

    He does rely on repetition as a motif, which is good and fine and OK sure, but where that bothered me the most was the insistence on the same darn images of Chani and the sword. Like I GET IT okay thankssss

    FYC:
    Picture: The Power of the Dog, Passing, The Lost Daughter, Drive My Car
    Director: Jane Campion, Rebecca Hall
    Actor: Benedict Cumberbatch, Hidetoshi Nishijima
    Actress: Tessa Thompson, Olivia Colman, Kristen Stewart
    Supporting Actress: Kirsten Dunst, Ruth Negga, Dakota Johnson, Jessie Buckley, Martha Plimpton
    Supporting Actor: Kodi Smit-McPhee, Jesse Plemons, Andre Holland, Troy Kotsur, Richard Jenkins, Reed Birney

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    FilmRoyalty
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    Oct 5th, 2011
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    #1204537091

    I actually enjoyed Timothee. He is a talented actor. I did not understand Jason Mamoa at all.

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    kaziz
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    #1204537095

    10 minutes are more than enough to feel that chemistry, it doesn’t matter if they’re friends in real life, I’m talking about on screen chemistry, the movie was good but I’m not excited to see these two, that’s not how i wanted to feel with this love story, i had the same problem with Bridgerton and the two leads.

    I’m just gonna go ahead and say that actually……..you feeling this way about their chemistry is totally fine, this is how the story is meant to be on some level. This is not a Bridgeton-level love story in the least, I don’t know exactly how to say more without giving away spoilers tbh but I think it felt just fine.

    FYC:
    Picture: The Power of the Dog, Passing, The Lost Daughter, Drive My Car
    Director: Jane Campion, Rebecca Hall
    Actor: Benedict Cumberbatch, Hidetoshi Nishijima
    Actress: Tessa Thompson, Olivia Colman, Kristen Stewart
    Supporting Actress: Kirsten Dunst, Ruth Negga, Dakota Johnson, Jessie Buckley, Martha Plimpton
    Supporting Actor: Kodi Smit-McPhee, Jesse Plemons, Andre Holland, Troy Kotsur, Richard Jenkins, Reed Birney

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    Chitanda170
    Joined:
    Apr 1st, 2020
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    #1204537130

    I’m just gonna go ahead and say that actually……..you feeling this way about their chemistry is totally fine, this is how the story is meant to be on some level. This is not a Bridgeton-level love story in the least, I don’t know exactly how to say more without giving away spoilers tbh but I think it felt just fine.

    It’s ok, i think I’m gonna start reading the book

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    Hawk
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    Aug 16th, 2019
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    #1204537143

    SPOILER WARNING

    I really feel like the amount of time between the Atreides arriving on Arrakis and them getting double-crossed/attacked was waaaaay too short. There wasn’t enough time to get oriented to all of the moving pieces of what was going on. I would have honestly preferred if the movie just focused on the world-building and political intrigue, and spent the whole time building the tension until they are double-crossed at the end. The movie could’ve ended with the huge attack/battle, Oscar Isaac dying, and Timothee/Rebecca escaping into the desert. I think that would’ve been a much better set up for a sequel.

    Side note: I thought Timothee was well cast and did a good job. Rebecca Ferguson was also phenomenal and from what I’ve seen this year so far (which isn’t a whole lot) I definitely think she’s nomination worthy, at least for now.

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    lipabridgerstwigs
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    Jul 27th, 2020
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    #1204537147

    I have no words except to say this is an absolute masterpiece and should easily be winning score and director. Wow, just wow.

    Dune and Passing best picture 2022
    Jeremy Strong Best Drama Actor 2022
    Sour Album Of The Year 2022

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    sarahvsmovies
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    Jun 14th, 2021
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    #1204537153

    The forum isn’t letting me quote the top part of your post for some reason, Kaziz, but yes! I really appreciate your take on why Jessica was handled the way she was. I hadn’t really thought of it as reflecting the emotional weight being refracted onto her, but I do think you’re completely right in your assessment that this is why she comes off with more vulnerability than I thought fit her character.

    As you said, Paul as a character for this portion at least is essentially a shadow, and so I understand him being played as sort of an empty vessel as he is. But I’m with you that Timothee’s performance left something to be desired. It didn’t feel so much the vapid character of Paul with a humanity of the book but erring towards a little…wooden. At least in the other adaptations, they were so BIG that it left nothing to criticize about that at least. I understand why and I still liked him a lot, but when you’re trying to represent the character that way and the rest of the characters are written to kind of deliver exposition and move plot you’re left with Jessica having to pick up that emotional element. I don’t love that, but you’re right that she has to basically become the emotional conduit for the film.

    Also, I’ve compared Nolan and Villeneuve before so I’m totally with you there! Sure he’s a master of atmosphere and visionary but his films veer more towards that populist appeal than not. Which is fine! but it does mean some of the weirdness goes missing. I’ll be really interested to see how some particular things in the second half are handled in that respect.

    YEAH. I mean, I actually forgive the exposition entirely tbh because on the one hand you have book readers like us and on the other people who are like WHAT IS HAPPENING, WAY TOO MUCH STUFF IS HAPPENING

    Yeah, I totally and completely understand. I guess there were just some points where I thought if you’re going to expend energy on exposition, maybe that’s not where to do it? Like the equipment, shields, etc…we can just see what it’s doing, how it works, and trust the audience to figure it out. Overall while there was certainly a good deal of exposition, almost all of it I understood why and that it probably had to be there, so I can get past that.

    On the other hand, unlike you I thought “desert power” was a little…goofy… 

    I think something about hearing that said and not followed up with some quip, joke, dismissal was…refreshing? That’s what made it awesome for me, that something like that was kept in there and delivered with sincerity. It IS  goofy but it’s meant to be to me? That in this cold, dense material something penetrating it like “desert power” sort of brings it back to Earth, brings an accessibility and humanity to it. Like, in this faraway story set thousands of years in the future with a world beyond our comprehension, here’s this guy who who is not just a leader but just as much a Dad coming up with something as very “dad” as “desert power.” And he delivers it with equal cheekiness, sincerity, and confidence so it’s ultimately like … a dad, being a dad, saying a very recognizably dopey dad thing. It’s grounding. I thought that was the intention, anyway. Because if you want real gravitas with that line, I don’t know how that could ever work. Any delivery, any context, “desert power” is gonna be goofy. And I think that’s kind of the point. That one line probably does not deserve my essay lmao, but I thought it ruled.

    Totally with you on the repetition in the visions. Several of them could have been cut completely and we would have gotten it. How many times do I have to see Chani turn around in slo mo? How many times do we have to see a bloody knife?

    I do think part of it was trying to build up the weight of the final duel between him and Jamis. Because it was so expedited here, we don’t really have the weight of what that battle was in the book. So the flashes to him as being a friend tried to create that. Ultimately that is one other little critique I had, that building the emotional weight to that battle didn’t quite work. Any line about being “a friend to Jamis,” which is ultimately an important character moment for Paul in the book, would be completely unearned here but instead of just foregoing that it’s like a half-hearted attempt to get there?

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    sarahvsmovies
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    #1204537163

    SPOILER WARNING I really feel like the amount of time between the Atreides arriving on Arrakis and them getting double-crossed/attacked was waaaaay too short. There wasn’t enough time to get oriented to all of the moving pieces of what was going on. I would have honestly preferred if the movie just focused on the world-building and political intrigue, and spent the whole time building the tension until they are double-crossed at the end. The movie could’ve ended with the huge attack/battle, Oscar Isaac dying, and Timothee/Rebecca escaping into the desert. I think that would’ve been a much better set up for a sequel.

    Very with you on this, I think this is the biggest complaint I would have. That probably would leave too much for part II, which is why I think they made this decision, but that arrival to devastation just felt way too fast. There’s SO much GREAT tension in that time period they could have mined. And the fall of Arrakeen/the Duke’s tragic death would have been a great final act climax and felt a bit less abrupt maybe than how this one concluded. But again, time is a factor. I don’t represent the general audience in being willing to sit for a 4 hour part two, haha.

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    kaziz
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    #1204537204

    I think something about hearing that said and not followed up with some quip, joke, dismissal was…refreshing? That’s what made it awesome for me, that something like that was kept in there and delivered with sincerity. It IS  goofy but it’s meant to be to me? That in this cold, dense material something penetrating it like “desert power” sort of brings it back to Earth, brings an accessibility and humanity to it. Like, in this faraway story set thousands of years in the future with a world beyond our comprehension, here’s this guy who who is not just a leader but just as much a Dad coming up with something as very “dad” as “desert power.” And he delivers it with equal cheekiness, sincerity, and confidence so it’s ultimately like … a dad, being a dad, saying a very recognizably dopey dad thing. It’s grounding. I thought that was the intention, anyway. Because if you want real gravitas with that line, I don’t know how that could ever work. Any delivery, any context, “desert power” is gonna be goofy. And I think that’s kind of the point. That one line probably does not deserve my essay lmao, but I thought it ruled.

    Totally with you on the repetition in the visions. Several of them could have been cut completely and we would have gotten it. How many times do I have to see Chani turn around in slo mo? How many times do we have to see a bloody knife?

    I do think part of it was trying to build up the weight of the final duel between him and Jamis. Because it was so expedited here, we don’t really have the weight of what that battle was in the book. So the flashes to him as being a friend tried to create that. Ultimately that is one other little critique I had, that building the emotional weight to that battle didn’t quite work. Any line about being “a friend to Jamis,” which is ultimately an important character moment for Paul in the book, would be completely unearned here but instead of just foregoing that it’s like a half-hearted attempt to get there?

    Re: the most recent point: Agree on Duke’s death, but I was expecting that from the get-go and was just waiting for it to happen, and kept being like “when is THAT gonna happen”. This pacing stuff, for me personally, is very much about the Score. I honestly kept wondering why the Score’s signposting felt so off. I don’t think it really tracked the film’s pacing as much as I wanted it to (I should say that initially I also felt that way about Greenwood’s TPOTD score, but the first time I watched that was a TIFF digital version and then at NYFF which was obviously the 2nd time, I saw the character-specific motifs and the Sound is WAY LOUDER in the theatre. So maybe a 2nd viewing will change my perspective here too.)

    Lol I mean just like you I feel like me trying to die on the “desert power” hill is very strange, and I guess until you said it was meant to be goofy I didn’t fully get it, but I think that’s the bigger thing maybe: Denis does tend to falter with humor & goofiness because it’s at odds with his approach, and it’s only when Momoa or someone adept with humor was onscreen that it clicked. He’s just sooooo earnest lol, I giggled and I guess I agree with you now? Lol who knows really

    Yeah I suppose the over-foreshadowing makes sense but it totally undercut the power of Paul’s future-visions and the fact that he HAD to kill Jamis was interesting way to undercut the reliability of his visions, but it was still a bit strange to me (he’s supposed to ***!!! is what I kept thinking……5 minutes after a given scene lol).

    I mean, overall, it’s good. I honestly didn’t LOVE it, but the big things that had me worried—Denis got em. The fact that people are even talking about white-saviorism and spice and the internal logic of the Bene Gesserit in this world means that the story did his job well. I think you’re absolutely right: he HAS to get way weirder in Part 2, and since that part was contingent on the performance of Part 1, I guess it makes sense (also he said in an interview that it would be a pure cinematic thing for Part 2, which seems to me to be a kind of admission of how he tempered things here). Maybe I’m not super on-board with some things, I think I wanna rewatch the Lynch version lol because I kinda wanna see………if I agree at all with Richard Brody that this material necessitates something more in line with Lynch’s treatment? (We both love that version right? Like…yeah it’s bad, but it’s also AWESOME). As of now, I fully respect what this film did, especially when factoring in how freaking hard it is to do it! I’m literally left with only one complaint, which is that I don’t think it’s altogether sensible to put Bardem there, or even……Rampling imo. Given that we saw “the test” be kind of…not that bad, she was overly-imperious for a character I’m not going to see again, and we never see any Bene Gesserit again! It’s symptomatic of this razor thin line Denis walked: mostly it worked, sometimes it def didn’t.

    But given how much he had to juggle, that really doesn’t seem like a whole lotta complaints! I’m bothering to parse it so…….that’s a great sign! 😀

    FYC:
    Picture: The Power of the Dog, Passing, The Lost Daughter, Drive My Car
    Director: Jane Campion, Rebecca Hall
    Actor: Benedict Cumberbatch, Hidetoshi Nishijima
    Actress: Tessa Thompson, Olivia Colman, Kristen Stewart
    Supporting Actress: Kirsten Dunst, Ruth Negga, Dakota Johnson, Jessie Buckley, Martha Plimpton
    Supporting Actor: Kodi Smit-McPhee, Jesse Plemons, Andre Holland, Troy Kotsur, Richard Jenkins, Reed Birney

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    kaziz
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    #1204537210

    On a Production Design level: someone needs to tell contemporary Production Designers that Brutalist architecture is actually avant-garde and radical and not a sign of authoritarianism lol. I feel like the only contemporary film that HASN’T used heavy Brutalism to = fascism is…The Hunger Games?

    Also, I wonder why didn’t we see the Emperor. Would’ve been cool, probably on the cutting room floor with Josh Brolin’s singing scene (honestly, Denis shoulda kept that! Not just for the character but for this world, he shoulda kept it! A singing scene is not “avant-garde” but it woulda been a tonal shift that I woulda loved)

    FYC:
    Picture: The Power of the Dog, Passing, The Lost Daughter, Drive My Car
    Director: Jane Campion, Rebecca Hall
    Actor: Benedict Cumberbatch, Hidetoshi Nishijima
    Actress: Tessa Thompson, Olivia Colman, Kristen Stewart
    Supporting Actress: Kirsten Dunst, Ruth Negga, Dakota Johnson, Jessie Buckley, Martha Plimpton
    Supporting Actor: Kodi Smit-McPhee, Jesse Plemons, Andre Holland, Troy Kotsur, Richard Jenkins, Reed Birney

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    Hawk
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    Aug 16th, 2019
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    #1204537339

    Very with you on this, I think this is the biggest complaint I would have. That probably would leave too much for part II, which is why I think they made this decision, but that arrival to devastation just felt way too fast. There’s SO much GREAT tension in that time period they could have mined. And the fall of Arrakeen/the Duke’s tragic death would have been a great final act climax and felt a bit less abrupt maybe than how this one concluded. But again, time is a factor. I don’t represent the general audience in being willing to sit for a 4 hour part two, haha.

    I definitely see what you’re saying! I don’t know anything about the book/source material so I had no idea this was going to be a 2 part series. I think with a movie this dense it actually would’ve been better to do a Dune trilogy.

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    marsha_brightly
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    Aug 20th, 2020
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    #1204537346

    Its Fantastic…. i do not believe its gonna end up well in award season except for Visual and Audio that very Stunning

    the Visual Effect really clean even for only 720p video type…..i watched The avenger in 720p uuuhhhh lil bit worst for video quality….

    because movie like this more focus on 1080p to 4k …..but it runs well in 720p also

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    maxinho
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    Jan 28th, 2019
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    #1204537348

    Villeneuve should be definitely getting nominated, even sweeping Best Director this upcoming award season. I don’t think anyone will match what he has served in this film.

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    SN
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    #1204537354

    SPOILER WARNING

    I really feel like the amount of time between the Atreides arriving on Arrakis and them getting double-crossed/attacked was waaaaay too short. There wasn’t enough time to get oriented to all of the moving pieces of what was going on. I would have honestly preferred if the movie just focused on the world-building and political intrigue, and spent the whole time building the tension until they are double-crossed at the end. The movie could’ve ended with the huge attack/battle, Oscar Isaac dying, and Timothee/Rebecca escaping into the desert. I think that would’ve been a much better set up for a sequel.

    Side note: I thought Timothee was well cast and did a good job. Rebecca Ferguson was also phenomenal and from what I’ve seen this year so far (which isn’t a whole lot) I definitely think she’s nomination worthy, at least for now.

    This, all of this. I’ve read the graphic novel and it ends exactly where you mentioned. In the amount of time between the Atreides arriving in Arrakis and them getting in trouble, the book explains how dry Arrakis is and how important water is for the Fremen. The film missed that.

    It’s not a perfect adaptation, but I loved it. Rebecca Ferguson was definitely the MVP, but Timothee Chalamet was well cast too. Paul was a bland character but that’s something I also felt in the novel, so the problem wasn’t with Chalamet himself.

    It’s also marvelous technically speaking of course, the cinematography, the production design, the score. I can’t see anything beating it in VFX at the Oscars.

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    SaulAtreides
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    #1204537489

    It was a bit rushed like people said, they could’ve really used some scenes to flesh out the characters more, and hopefully we’ll get an extended edition somewhere along the way (though I know Villeneuve is ideologically opposed to that sort of thing). The fall of house Atreides would feel more meaningful if we spent more time with them. I felt the direction was very good, and the effects are probably the best we’ll see this year. The worldbuilding was excellent, and the world felt lived in. I liked the sound as well. It terms of performances I felt everyone did a good job with their roles, though Isaac honestly was sleepwalking a bit, no-one really deserves to be nominated. Overall I loved it, but that’s expected.

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