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How do you think Bob Fosse beat Coppola in 1972?

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  • RobertPius
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    #1202834814

    Wasn’t that the first time the Oscars differed from the DGA? I can see why Fosse impressed people but still The Godfather was pretty acclaimed. Any analysis you’ve read over the years?

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    Baby Clyde
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    #1202835035

    Cabaret won 8 Oscars.

    The Godfather won 3.

    The real question is how did Cabaret lose Best Picture.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Baby Clyde.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Baby Clyde.
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    M: The Original
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    #1202835076

    Cabaret won 8 Oscars.

    The Godfather won 3.

    The real question is how did Cabaret lose Best Picture.

    Cabaret is overtly queer and feminine.

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    Kubrick
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    #1202835175

    Fosse deservedly won. Coppola got his chance the next time up to bat. Both films are absolutely perfect in just about every way. Not sure who I would have voted for.

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    Joe Burns
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    Probably by a very narrow but not barely winning margin as Fosse was a highly respected artist who had an incredibly banner year. Cabaret was also clearly beloved by the Academy and probably just barely missed Best Picture unless the love for it merely extended further then the love for The Godfather in more categories that year(Pacino was hurt by vote splitting between not one but two costars) several of which the Godfather was not competing in.

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    Joe Burns
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    #1202835194

    Wasn’t that the first time the Oscars differed from the DGA? I can see why Fosse impressed people but still The Godfather was pretty acclaimed. Any analysis you’ve read over the years?

    No the first time was when The Lion In Winter’s Anthony Harvey lost the Oscar to Carol Reed for Oliver!

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    Nate
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    #1202836098

    Hopefully Fosse/Verdon will give us all a better sense of the atmosphere at that time, but my hunch is that the success of Pippin on Broadway at the same time probably helped.

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    Eddie Robillard
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    #1202836218

    Since the first Oscars (and the Academy Award goes to …) there has always been a vein of not rewarding films that from the opening day of that picture — would be valued by the film going public 10 years 20 years upwards to the end of time after opening.   Evident – any film by Hitch, that sled film by OW (not the talk show ex queen but the 1930s scare America radio producer/actor), Bette Davis in Of Human Bondage, any film released in 1939 1977 1996, Color Purple, A Star is Born (2018, 1954), Goodfellows, Glenn Close, Peter O Toole, Eddie Murphy, etc.  Back in the day the Academy actually occasionally  gave an Oscar for most improved/we are terribly sorry to individuals like Eliz Taylor, Bette Davis, Kevin Costner, and Bob Fosse.  Fosse had a only in Hollywood can you destroy your decades long career in one film.  That film was Sweet Charity.  Nothing sweet like that of no tickets selling at boxoffice.  There are stories of  him lobbying for director as the execs didnt want a bomb maker on the project.  During those two years he filmed Cabaret, directed and choreographed Pippin (stage show-broadway) and did the the same for Liza with a Z a tv special.  Coppola too should have won considering everyone on the lot knew what he gone through but Hollywood knew he would be writing his own ticket in the foreseeing future so that would be his Oscar.  Though now 2019 i have this advise to Paramount and Godfather rights holders:   I am a gen x member and any kid over the age of 5 in 1972 remembers every adult talking and reading Godfather.  Adults whispering about the horse head scene and mothers talking about big lips and any kid back then can as adults now tell you the colors of the paperback cover.  Now for a couple of decades I read only classics during the summer months — which it seems everyone has an opinion on and has no trouble telling me theirs on such titles of GWTW, Great Gasb, Candide, Tale of Two Cities, but when it came to Godfather – everyone wanted to borrow it after I was done or said they were going to buy it because they havent read it.  My entire office staff passed two copies of the book between 68 people of different race and age and we all loved it –  I remembered not even being able to finish the first page as a kid because the print was so small but now WOW what a era marker in how the book was written and sold and entertained.  So the kids age 20+ kept coming back to me to inform me they fell asleep in the movie and that it didnt match the book in tone or style.  I explained to them how the movie was made (placement of camera — less people and set on film the better –meaning the filmmaker only has to spend money on two actors costumes instead of 10 actors costumes etc.) Also by the late 60s films were generally designed for men and boys – even if its based on another medium that at its core is a womans story (Puzo – its like he did market research — women were more likely to buy a book, read a book.  Women during 1967 – 1978 discovered the pill  and that talking about lips wasn’t anything to be ashamed of let alone being ashamed of an abortion.)  This book starts with women and ends with women and sprinkled about is humor that one never sees or hears in the film.  I feel in fact that the film though great in its time is dated and slow and completely misses the mark of the book (women are equal to men and deserve to be respected  — though I wonder if there were women that were members of the family instead of being the wives of members of the family?) I fully state “Paramount needs to refilm this as a 3 hr + production or sell to tv as a mini series.  Its stunning to me that a mafia novel turns upside down and says to a world full of singled/divorced women its not you its them .   There is nothing wrong with you woman .

    Now how many top 10 books in 1971 spoke positively of womens bodies,?  Not Harold Robbins not John Updike, Stepford Wives?  Irving Wallace.   Puzo did and he was a genius now Paramount needs a huge hit — and if the staff of Paramount or the filmmakers of the 1972 film are worried if remaking Godfather would cheapen the original.  Stop or you will make yourself sick because no one cares about the Godfather except very very old white men.  Isnt it time to step up to the me too movement and let the white women and have Kay be the daughter of the kitchen help so she has some footing into the family and Michael and his family’s life and work.   Her father could be black and her mother a nice Irish cook.   In homage to Coppola her father could have been a bouncer for the cotton club.  Paramount this is a money printing pic and the studio needs a hit – Quiet Place 2 isnt going to go where godfather 2019 goes – oscar gold to the bank with cash in hand.  Nolan is your director if not try Bigelow.

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    Derp Boy
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    #1202836235

    You were going somewhere, but ended it on a long stupid rant that made no sense

    "We will always have Paris"

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    Jeffrey Kare
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    #1202836357

    I obviously wasn’t alive in 1973, but I can just imagine what it might’ve been like watching that ceremony unfold. From having seen the telecast’s Wikipedia page and playlist on the Oscars’ YouTube channel, I noticed that Best Director was presented before both screenplay categories. So when Bob Fosse was announced as the winner for Best Director, it must’ve really started to look like Cabaret was about to win Best Picture. Especially given how at that point in the night, The Godfather hadn’t won anything yet. One of the first things Fosse said in his acceptance speech was that “I must say I feel a little like Clint Eastwood that you’re letting me stand up here because Coppola or (Joseph L.) Mankiewicz hasn’t shown up yet.” Then, when Jack Lemmon announced that the award for Best Adapted Screenplay went to The Godfather, Francis Ford Coppola said in his acceptance speech that he became nervous throughout the night that he was never going to get up on stage. Though later in the speech, he kindly congratulated Bob Fosse.

    Overall, I think this was a year where the split between Picture and Director was perfect. The Godfather is definitely the rightful winner while the directorial achievement of Cabaret was actually a lot more impressive (especially from a technical standpoint).

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    Joe Burns
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    #1202836602

    I obviously wasn’t alive in 1973, but I can just imagine what it might’ve been like watching that ceremony unfold. From having seen the telecast’s Wikipedia page and playlist on the Oscars’ YouTube channel, I noticed that Best Director was presented before both screenplay categories. So when Bob Fosse was announced as the winner for Best Director, it must’ve really started to look like Cabaret was about to win Best Picture. Especially given how at that point in the night, The Godfather hadn’t won anything yet. One of the first things Fosse said in his acceptance speech was that “I must say I feel a little like Clint Eastwood that you’re letting me stand up here because Coppola or (Joseph L.) Mankiewicz hasn’t shown up yet.” Then, when Jack Lemmon announced that the award for Best Adapted Screenplay went to The Godfather, Francis Ford Coppola said in his acceptance speech that he became nervous throughout the night that he was never going to get up on stage. Though later in the speech, he kindly congratulated Bob Fosse.

    Overall, I think this was a year where the split between Picture and Director was perfect. The Godfather is definitely the rightful winner while the directorial achievement of Cabaret was actually a lot more impressive (especially from a technical standpoint).

    Joseph L. Mankiewicz had won two directing Oscars though so I’m a bit confused at Fosse’s comment?

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    Jaredm1
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    #1202836609

    Tell me why I thought this said bob Ross at first😂

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    Jeffrey Kare
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    Joseph L. Mankiewicz had won two directing Oscars though so I’m a bit confused at Fosse’s comment?

    I don’t know what he meant by that, but I’m guessing Fosse thought Mankiewicz or (especially) Coppola was going to win.

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    RobertPius
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    #1202836897

    I don’t know what he meant by that, but I’m guessing Fosse thought Mankiewicz or (especially) Coppola was going to win.

    Eastwood was pulled from the audience at the last minute to sub for some presenter who didn’t make it there in time (I think.)

    I think Fosse was just joking that it was somehow a mistake that he was up there over Coppola. I don’t know why he added Mank to the joke. Maybe because he was such a veteran winner it would be like joking nowadays that you thought Meryl would beat you.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  RobertPius.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  RobertPius.
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    SHT L
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    #1202837685

    Fosse’s joke may have been half-serious. He was very self-deprecating and always had this feeling of being a fraud even with his stage work. That was one issue he had with his wife Gwen Verdon who really elevated everything she did. Her having that quality doing his choreography and staring in his shows didn’t help with that despite her undying faith in his talent and abilities.

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