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  • Chimichanggas
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    #1203003369

    Hey! I made this thread in order to accommodate questions that require short answers or discussions. I know we all don’t want to have a messy forum by constantly making unnecessary threads like “Jessica Chastain”, “Chris Pine”, “Why wasn’t Tarantino ever able to top&create something like Pulp Fiction again?”, and more. These unnecessary threads do not live long and unfortunately, they’ll just become carcasses on Gold Derby.

    So, I’ll start:  Green Book won Best Picture last Academy Awards and it received a lot of backlash. It is predicted that Green Book won’t age well through time. Now, how do you think would each of last year’s Best Picture nominees age?

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    FairWeatherAffair
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    #1203003727

    Green Book will age better than many want to admit, in part because Farrelly and his work were already undergoing a critical re-evaluation in some circles, and these groups will continue to reappraise Green Book for its form and technique while other circles continue to decry it on grounds of aesthetics and politics, which is fair.

    Thoughts on Black Panther will probably remain where they are, if not have people shifting to the extremities a bit more. Those who value the representation of black bodies and Africana worlds will support it as a pinnacle of mainstream film, while those who look beyond Disney’s cash-grab pretty-politicking may begin to loathe it more as it’s rather centrist and neoliberal politics are made more clear with time.

    BlacKkKlansman will always have support for one reason or another. Lee is a bold enough filmmaker that each of his pieces will find fervent supporters of the art, even if those supporters change from film to film. This one will end up in the middle of his oeuvre, if not lower, as even upon its Cannes premiere the tastemakers were already rolling their eyes at the rapturous reception it got from the more mass-appeal critics. Even still, its beginning to be readily apparent in some circles that this was the best among the bunch last year.

    Bohemian Rhapsody is loathed by many, and for good variety of reasons (many of them actually valid!). Either it is piss-poor filmmaking, or the politics behind the scenes are gross, or its artists are reprehensible, or all of the above. Its fate was sealed long ago: theater-loving teenagers and those who enjoy queer representation (who care not of the quality or context of said representation) will love it to pieces while the rest of the world hates it.

    Now, The Favourite is a bit trickier, in part because with each successive viewing of the film, one’s own opinion can shift dramatically. Some find it empty yet stylistically ravishing, others praise the performances for elevating a screenplay which lacks nuance, some are heralding it as another feather in the grand cap of Lanthimos, while still others deride the film for all involved failing to, once again, say anything beyond “isn’t deviation from the norm sexy?” Ultimately, the reputation here will probably not change, and for that reason the film is bound to be some peoples’ favorite of the pack for many years to come, while for many others, this will not be the case.

    Roma is in for a rude awakening once people start seeing Cuarón as a white person instead of a brown person. He has no business telling the story of an indigenous person in this manner, and as more people come to that realization, the film’s reputation will suffer. The images will always be beautiful to some, and to others, perhaps not so much, but with younger generations continuing to lean into leftism the way they are, Roma will get its due re-evaluation.

    Another tricky one, A Star Is Born will be harder to predict. It has supporters among both the masses and high-brow cinephiles, who all claim it as a masterpiece of emotion and musicianship. The masses enjoy the romance, cinephiles adore the tale (and imagery) of Jackson Maine’s fall. Others, though, see past this, and claim the film to be hollow, filled with poor leading performances, gross depictions of mental illness and self-harm, and ultimately inferior to past iterations. With time, this, similar to Black Panther, will be pulled in either direction: great cinema for some, low cinema for others, with little in between.

    Lastly, Vice; this film is bound for infamy, in a faster and meaner trajectory than that of Roma. Upon release many were already decrying the crappy filmmaking and performances, and more will come to this realization once the obvious liberal pandering on display is of common notice. People on the left will resent being condescended to, and all others will have already written it off. The lowest common denominator of the bunch, by far.

    In 50 years’ time:

    BlacKkKlansman
    The Favourite
    Green Book
    Black Panther
    A Star Is Born
    Roma
    Bohemian Rhapsody
    Vice

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    Chimichanggas
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    #1203004486

    Green Book will age better than many want to admit, in part because Farrelly and his work were already undergoing a critical re-evaluation in some circles, and these groups will continue to reappraise Green Book for its form and technique while other circles continue to decry it on grounds of aesthetics and politics, which is fair.

    Thoughts on Black Panther will probably remain where they are, if not have people shifting to the extremities a bit more. Those who value the representation of black bodies and Africana worlds will support it as a pinnacle of mainstream film, while those who look beyond Disney’s cash-grab pretty-politicking may begin to loathe it more as it’s rather centrist and neoliberal politics are made more clear with time.

    BlacKkKlansman will always have support for one reason or another. Lee is a bold enough filmmaker that each of his pieces will find fervent supporters of the art, even if those supporters change from film to film. This one will end up in the middle of his oeuvre, if not lower, as even upon its Cannes premiere the tastemakers were already rolling their eyes at the rapturous reception it got from the more mass-appeal critics. Even still, its beginning to be readily apparent in some circles that this was the best among the bunch last year.

    Bohemian Rhapsody is loathed by many, and for good variety of reasons (many of them actually valid!). Either it is piss-poor filmmaking, or the politics behind the scenes are gross, or its artists are reprehensible, or all of the above. Its fate was sealed long ago: theater-loving teenagers and those who enjoy queer representation (who care not of the quality or context of said representation) will love it to pieces while the rest of the world hates it.

    Now, The Favourite is a bit trickier, in part because with each successive viewing of the film, one’s own opinion can shift dramatically. Some find it empty yet stylistically ravishing, others praise the performances for elevating a screenplay which lacks nuance, some are heralding it as another feather in the grand cap of Lanthimos, while still others deride the film for all involved failing to, once again, say anything beyond “isn’t deviation from the norm sexy?” Ultimately, the reputation here will probably not change, and for that reason the film is bound to be some peoples’ favorite of the pack for many years to come, while for many others, this will not be the case.

    Roma is in for a rude awakening once people start seeing Cuarón as a white person instead of a brown person. He has no business telling the story of an indigenous person in this manner, and as more people come to that realization, the film’s reputation will suffer. The images will always be beautiful to some, and to others, perhaps not so much, but with younger generations continuing to lean into leftism the way they are, Roma will get its due re-evaluation.

    Another tricky one, A Star Is Born will be harder to predict. It has supporters among both the masses and high-brow cinephiles, who all claim it as a masterpiece of emotion and musicianship. The masses enjoy the romance, cinephiles adore the tale (and imagery) of Jackson Maine’s fall. Others, though, see past this, and claim the film to be hollow, filled with poor leading performances, gross depictions of mental illness and self-harm, and ultimately inferior to past iterations. With time, this, similar to Black Panther, will be pulled in either direction: great cinema for some, low cinema for others, with little in between.

    Lastly, Vice; this film is bound for infamy, in a faster and meaner trajectory than that of Roma. Upon release many were already decrying the crappy filmmaking and performances, and more will come to this realization once the obvious liberal pandering on display is of common notice. People on the left will resent being condescended to, and all others will have already written it off. The lowest common denominator of the bunch, by far.

    In 50 years’ time:

    BlacKkKlansman
    The Favourite
    Green Book
    Black Panther
    A Star Is Born
    Roma
    Bohemian Rhapsody
    Vice

    @fairweatheraffair I can’t agree more. I always find your thoughts as substantial and logical and not just some pure stanning and I admire every little bit of it. To continue your analysis, and if you have time, how about last last year’s, the Shape of Water year?

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    FairWeatherAffair
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    #1203004789

    Well, I can certainly try! That year will be more difficult, though, because I am more personally invested in “who should have won.”

    I’ll start with the winner: The Shape of Water, try as many wanted to like it, perhaps even love it, just could not muster much passion beyond its core group of fans. It won BP on general good graces, but if that is all you have going for you, your reputation is bound to sour. I expect it to go down as a lesser del Toro film, a disappointing BP winner (which has sort of already been established), and arguably a not-so-great film in general.

    As for the rest:

    Oh, Call Me by Your Name, how the queers love you; or should I say, some of the queers (and their allies). A rather difficult prediction to make, largely because it will depend on the outcome of the ongoing (silent?) debate among gay men on how they feel about sexual relationships between teenagers and their older, and much older, lovers. Is it wrong, morally or otherwise, period? Is it wrong, but acceptable given the history of such relationships and the marginalization of the community? Is it okay, because most sex is okay? Is it okay, because teenagers are more sexually mature than people like to think? Fucking precociousness, man. Ultimately, I expect this one to receive some significant kickback, but that will probably have more to do with a lot of people getting over the love affair with Lanthimos’ work than any of the text’s material.

    Darkest Hour was a nominee most of us should have seen coming, which is strange considering that most people who care for film in even the slightest artistic sense can tell that it sucks. But, Wright has a specific tonal grip (even if that tone shifts wildly from scene to scene) that grabs certain groups of the masses. And, it’s hard to look away from bombastic performances, even if they are pretty terrible. A fate foretold even before it premiered: bottom of the barrel.

    Nolan can do no wrong, but only if you ask the right person. Dunkirk will be revered by certain demographics for very obvious reasons, but the opposite is just as true. If the film survives an inevitable mass-takedown of all of Nolan’s work, it will be because a high-brow, respected critic will come to his defense in a beautiful and revealing way, and not because the fanboys suddenly convinced a bunch of film archivists that he has merit. Dunkirk will be on the low end of his filmography for some due to the narrative and editing choices, and on the high end for others because of the thematic material itself. Middle-of-the-road, perhaps?

    Get Out was, from the beginning, a big success for surface reasons, for cultural reasons, for commercial reasons, etc. The critical success came from very pronounced and friendly circles though, and if one digs a bit deeper into the murky pools of cinephilia, it is not hard to find those who see Get Out as derivative, unscary, and obvious. Depending on Peele’s own movements throughout his directorial career, this film will either fall toward the bottom as a less-refined early work, or drift toward the top as genius-from-the-get-go.

    If Lady Bird stands as the pinnacle of coming-of-age cinema, I’ll eat a brick, because coming-of-age it is not. I so wish this had been marketed differently, or that the masses didn’t see teenagers as without full agency. But I digress. Gerwig’s first solo project as a director will probably not be her best work, but some may continue to see it that way because it is such a mass-appeal and personal film. Others will roll their eyes at the rather bland narrative, or the lack of depth in a lead character that seems too toned down in her interactions for the personality that she boasts. With so much barb, that is, where is the conflict? Lady Bird will probably remain as beloved as it is for some, with others continuing to turn away. Pulled in both directions, it will never be best-in-show.

    Now, here is where I need to be careful, because Phantom Thread is an honest masterpiece of cinema. Performances are calibrated correctly, the cinematography works in conjunction with all of the crafts perfectly, the screenplay is to die for… So why is it this is the one of the nine that has been seen the least? Why are people not even making the effort to watch Phantom Thread? Because you have to care about film in a certain way to be in a mindset to even want to attempt what could look, on the surface, very much like some boring period drama. To those of us who know better, it’s baffling to hear that; it’s probably also equally as baffling to hear that, once again, DDL gives a tour-de-force, and something about mushrooms late in the film, and maybe there’s a ghost? But it’s so slow, it’s PTA! I need to temper myself, then, and say that of course there is a chance history will not place this at the top; it could just as easily sit there, though, because it is the cinephiles, the theorists and historians and critics and so on, who often decide this stuff.

    Lol. The Post. I mean, you have to appreciate Spielberg sticking to his tried and true formulas. If that’s a formula that works for you, then this was probably a blast. If you’re more like me, and you’re increasingly intolerant of this formula, then perhaps not so much. Do you like watching two of the most lauded actors ham it up together? Or does that make your skin crawl and your eyes bleed from all the boredom? Mileage may vary.

    And then the politics threw up all over awards season. Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, an American film made through and through, except for the fact that that is not at all true and it is very easy to tell, because even the most racist American person could spin a more evolved and nuanced tale than this. For all the talk about “grey area” that surrounds this film, it was pretty clear to many at the time (and many more since, with still more to join in the years to come, sealing this film’s fate), that violent, racist cops do not deserve atonement. They deserve to fade away into obscurity, without pleading their case.

    In 50 years’ time:

    Phantom Thread
    Get Out
    The Post
    Lady Bird
    Call Me by Your Name
    The Shape of Water
    Dunkirk
    Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
    Darkest Hour

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    Chimichanggas
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    #1203004859

    This is great but I’m deeply baffled by some of your insights here. Anyways, I still decide to somehow agree with you because you have these statements that are reasonable enough to make your analysis viable.

    I’m not good in explaining things but if I have to do the ranking in 50 year’s time, it would be like this:

    Dunkirk
    Get Out
    Call Me by Your Name
    Phantom Thread
    The Shape of Water
    The Post
    Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
    Lady Bird
    Darkest Hour

    I placed Dunkirk first because it is that one film in the list that can accommodate the most viewers around the world. Why? Because it is a war film and serious and typical war films in this days are rare to be seen unlike in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. And adding the Christopher Nolan style of filmmaking in it makes it more beloved by many.

    For the rest, I can hardly tell how did I come up with that but I try to think more and more to be well-educated in this matter. Look, I personally love Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri but due to it being so divisive, it’s placed on the bottom part of the list.

    @fairweatheraffair would you mind if you also do 2016? It would be appreciated.

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