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SAG Best Actor: It's Oldman vs Denzel

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  • Roney Moore
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    #1202454760

    All of the things you’ve mentioned about his performance (tics, technics, range), while are true and it’s a good one, are already the reasons how he was able to get nominated for such an unsuccesful movie in the first place. But for winning, you need more than that.

    Saying Chalamet would only be in fourth place here is a tad reaching. It  feels like you give SAG more credit than it actually merits. If ”actors” really factored the hardship and commitment that much when they’re voting we wouldn’t have seen such high correlation between SAG and other award bodies. It’s a mixture of buzz, the performance, the film, timing (and maybe ”respect” if it’s SAG) like it always has been. Denzel only ticks two of those boxes max and he will be lucky if that is enough to push him to the Oscar nomination.

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    Honey
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    #1202454765

    Iono man, did someone check the fandango poll this year to see if Denzel topped it? It was a reliable receipt last year

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    distain
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    #1202454767

    My impression is that the Chalamet we see on press junkets is vastly different from the character of Elio, down to his voice and diction. And he didn’t even undergo any physical transformation for the role, which is what impresses me.

    I actually think Chalamet comes across quite humble and self-effacing in interviews. While Elio comes across a bit bratty and entitled. So for me Chalamet is definitely playing a character, or at least tapping into a more hidden aspect of himself for the role.

    But ultimately, I think he’ll still play to very many actors as “really good casting”, and not some awe-inspiring feat of thespianism.

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    manalemel
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    #1202455017

    Chalamet stands a fantastic chance at winning.  If he somehow snags the BAFTA, that’s the safe bet for the gold, because even BAFTA doesn’t have a terrific track record at awarding young male actors.  Honestly, I’m at a loss…  This year is so strange (and subtle), that a lot of different things could happen, and they would all be pretty unexpected to a large degree.

    My investment in his win isn’t as great as most of the Gold Derby’s crowd (who collectively, from what I’m gathering, seem to be rooting for a Chalamet win across the board, for the most part), and frankly, his nomination and praise seems to hinge, again, for the most part, on Guadagnino’s gift to him: that final, near four minute close-up.

    I’ve seen the film multiple times now, and I’m still not as ensorcelled by it as many critics and audience members are (people are seeing oceans of emotions on his face, but I’m probably too jaded to have the same reaction, sadly), but I wholeheartedly believe the talk of him winning (and deserving it above all others, to boot) wouldn’t be as fervent without it.  Sorry, but go to nearly every review, professional or otherwise (well, except for Jason Adams, he of My New Plaid Pants, who is capital O Obsessed with CMBYN, bless his heart, lol), and that’s the takeaway from his performance as far as tangible accomplishments.  That or the way he looks at Hammer during “Love My Way”, which, eh (GREAT choice of song, though); he does greater work during the sequence where he and Oliver head with the father to the archaeological dig… it’s damn near as close as he got to seamless transformation into character.  Or that a 21-year old somehow manages to act the part of a 17-year old coming to terms with his sexuality in a tender, subtle manner.  Great!  He does to a large degree, he’s also about 3 years removed from that emotional head-space (as opposed to Denzel, or Oldman, or, going back a ways, Hoffman in Capote, or for symmetry’s sake, Ledger in BM), and though I agree Chalamet is much more down-to-earth as himself in interviews, etc., he’s still performing for all of us, and that should never be an indication, in MY humble opinion, of how an actor is in real life.

    Chalamet is a most deserving nominee.  He does a great job, he really does.  But speaking from someone who isn’t enamored by it and who didn’t find the film to be that much removed from the rest of Guadagnino’s Trilogy of Desire, I’m less inclined to believe his is the performance meriting the win.

    Guadagnino is a master stylist, like Almodovar, and he knows how to seduce us, top to bottom, with everything down to the smallest pen, and up to, again, the fire-lit close up (what a pity if cinematographers don’t nominate this come ASC and Oscars time, same for the production design and costumes, all three its most deserving nominations outside of original song and actor).  For what it’s worth, there’s nothing wrong with manipulation in cinema; but the G-man has us twirled in his fingers from that John Adams-heavy opening with the bodies “daring you to desire them.”  Sorry, but Guadagnino isn’t exempt from pretension, and that, alongside the entire “because I wanted you to know” reading as they traverse the WWI statue…  I just don’t think Chalamet clinches the Antonioni of it all, is what I’m saying.  There’s too much New York teenager in him still, and it pops here and there enough (for me) to distract me and make me realize he’s, well, acting.

    He gets damn close, though.  In like five years, he’s going to be a real firecracker, especially if he keeps having divine taste in directors.

    Then AGAIN, I’m rooting for Gyllenhaal, and his nomination is about as sure a thing as CMBYN winning original score…  So I know nothing.

    Carry on, Chalamet lovers, carry him all the way to the win in your heart of hearts!

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    Marcus Snowden (The Artist Formerly Known as msnowden1)
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    #1202455019

    I don’t see Denzel being in second place. I think we can all agree that Chalamet is in that spot next to Oldman.

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    distain
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    #1202455697

    All of the things you’ve mentioned about his performance (tics, technics, range), while are true and it’s a good one, are already the reasons how he was able to get nominated for such an unsuccesful movie in the first place. But for winning, you need more than that.

    Saying Chalamet would only be in fourth place here is a tad reaching. It feels like you give SAG more credit than it actually merits. If ”actors” really factored the hardship and commitment that much when they’re voting we wouldn’t have seen such high correlation between SAG and other award bodies. It’s a mixture of buzz, the performance, the film, timing (and maybe ”respect” if it’s SAG) like it always has been. Denzel only ticks two of those boxes max and he will be lucky if that is enough to push him to the Oscar nomination.

    I don’t neccesarily disagree with most of this. Which is why Oldman is the out and out favorite and I think he’s very likely winning. If Denzel had those other factors you mention going for him (media buzz, momentum), I would say it would be too close to call between him and Oldman, because he’s got the performance and he’s got the respect for SAG to respond to. But at the end of the day, someone has to be in 2nd, and I think based on how I know actors value performances in lead actor at SAG and the sheer level of respect he commands within the branch, I think that would be Denzel. He’s who I would take if there was for some reason to be an upset. Which there probably won’t be. But upsets do happen, so anything is possible I guess.

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    Andrew Carden
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    #1202455833

    I suspect, at SAG at least, it’s actually Franco in the runner-up position to Oldman. Chamalet’s better shot is at the Globes.

    For the finest in film reviews and awards analysis, please visit me at The Awards Connection!

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    distain
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    #1202456109

    Hmmm…David Sims, the Editor Of The Atlantic who originally gave Roman J Israel a negative review, has now tweeted that he thinks it might be a masterpiece:

    David Sims‏Verified account
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    I know it’s already 2018 but I can’t dismiss this nagging feeling that Roman J. Israel Esq. was secretly a masterpiece

    https://twitter.com/davidlsims/status/948567045620293633

    That was a quick reappraisal.

    I get the feeling that long after this season is over and forgotten, it’ll become the fashionable coffee shop opinion from critics who didn’t care to nominate Denzel’s performance for anything to cite Roman J as his best ever performance, even over Malcolm X.

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    Miles
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    #1202456142

    I suspect, at SAG at least, it’s actually Franco in the runner-up position to Oldman. Chamalet’s better shot is at the Globes. For the finest in film reviews and awards analysis, please visit me at The Awards Connection!

    Yes, I think a Franco victory is much more likely than a Chalamet victory, although both are far behind Oldman.

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    distain
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    #1202456165

    The last comedic performance to win in this category was 15 years ago. And that movie needed to make a BILLION dollars at the box office for that to happen.

    That’s the scale of Franco’s task. Based purely on performance, history of the category and the fact that drama is the default choice, SAG would 99% of the time opt for Denzel’s work over Franco.

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    iheartamyadams
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    #1202456349

    lol You “knew how the Oscars voted” last year and that didn’t work out so well. He just won last year and SAG never repeats acting winners in film categories like that. Add on the fact the film is panned, a box office disaster and everyone nominated has better reviews and critic performances and there’s really no path. He’s last place filler lucky to have even been nominated.

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    #1202456408

    Thread title of the year.

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    distain
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    #1202456532

    Well, Matthew Modine (a pretty fantastic actor himself) has just seen Roman J Israel, Esq, and he’s here for it (and Denzel):

    Matthew Modine‏Verified account @MatthewModine 8h8 hours ago
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    @RomanJIsraelEsq

    #DenzelWashington is a force of nature. Kudos.

    Wonderful film. Thank you to all the artists involved.

    https://twitter.com/MatthewModine/status/949142456456511488

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    DameAudrey
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    #1202456607

    I suspect, at SAG at least, it’s actually Franco in the runner-up position to Oldman. Chamalet’s better shot is at the Globes. For the finest in film reviews and awards analysis, please visit me at The Awards Connection!

    That’s absolutely right. In fact, as much as I dislike Chalamet, I’m predicting him at the Globes.

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    distain
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    #1202457159

    Chalamet can win the Globe, most definitely. At worst, he’s 2nd there, as they tend to go with buzz.

    Everyone obviously knows Oldman the the HFPA have been something akin to mortal enemies for years. Otherwise, Oldman would be the clear and obvious choice.

    At the same time, I think it’s very possible the HFPA will want to show they they aren’t petty and don’t hold a grudge about whatever Oldman has said in the past. So in many ways, an Oldman win is good PR for the HFPA.

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