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I went to se this movie with expectations of liking or perhaps loving it. It got a grade of F from me. I hated every single aspect of this film – every single rotten moment of having to spend time with these despicable characters. This movie is PRETENTIOUS DRIVEL! No wonder the critics are drooling all over it. Cate Blanchett is always competent but who wants to spend two and a half hours with this horrendous despicable character? Not me. Worst screenplay, even worse direction, just couldn’t wait to leave the movie theater and wash off the stench from this piece of cinematic garbage! I am not surprised at it’s awards success since critics are idiots these days but I am happy that audiences have had the good sense to stay away from it in droves! It is a BOX OFFICE BOMB!!!!! This isn’t a beloved performance by audiences and that is why I do not think Blanchett will prevail at the Oscars. It’s a critics darling movie. We get a few of these every year. If she wins a third Oscar it will be due to a lack of consensus around another of the nominees and for no other reason imo. (I am predicting Michelle Yeoh will win the Oscar at this point).
ReplyCopy URLI went to se this movie with expectations of liking or perhaps loving it. It got a grade of F from me. I hated every single aspect of this film – every single rotten moment of having to spend time with these despicable characters. This movie is PRETENTIOUS DRIVEL! No wonder the critics are drooling all over it. Cate Blanchett is always competent but who wants to spend two and a half hours with this horrendous despicable character? Not me. Worst screenplay, even worse direction, just couldn’t wait to leave the movie theater and wash off the stench from this piece of cinematic garbage! I am not surprised at it’s awards success since critics are idiots these days but I am happy that audiences have had the good sense to stay away from it in droves! It is a BOX OFFICE BOMB!!!!! This isn’t a beloved performance by audiences and that is why I do not think Blanchett will prevail at the Oscars. It’s a critics darling movie. We get a few of these every year. If she wins a third Oscar it will be due to a lack of consensus around another of the nominees and for no other reason imo. (I am predicting Michelle Yeoh will win the Oscar at this point).
I’m surprised you hate it with so much passion…;-)
I think it’s a great film about adults made for adults, with unHollywood approach (no cheap sentimentalism and easy answers). All differences aside, it reminds me of Lost Daughter, in a way that it leaves you wondering about a character who is unlikable and complex long after the film is finished.
There are a lot of nuances worth watching the film the second time. I still try to get the ending. Not the last scene, but how Lydia acts and who she is at the end.
ReplyCopy URLVery long post alert that probably no one will read and that you are welcome to ignore, but that I think might be worth it to someone.
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I watched Tár for the third time with a friend of mine over the holidays. Despite still having some problems with the film, it gets better with each new watch. What the film revealed this time around was the extent of the production design work. I was quite surprised at how much detail I missed in these sets, which really revealed a whole new layer of the story for me.
One thing that impressed me from the first time I watched the film was the architecture of the buildings chosen for filming, the grandeur and how different buildings were seamlessly blended into just one fictional location (the concert hall is filmed in several different buildings and the offices are studio built). I remember many years ago seeing an article about the apartment they used as Lydia and Sharon’s home. The story of the apartment is that it was a bunker that has been converted into an art gallery and penthouse, but the beautiful set dressing brought a real sense of coziness inside the “impersonal” place, and it serves well as a visual metaphor of the only place in Lydia’s life where any tenderness flourishes. The piano being the centerpiece of both of Lydia’s Berlin apartments is also very defining.
Speaking of her old apartment (which seems to be used more as an escape, a place where she can be alone with the music), I think it’s the most intriguing set for me. The colors are cold and luxury is not as present, but Lydia seems to feel more comfortable in it. The apartment is decorated with artifacts from indigenous cultures in the Amazon, she mentions this trip in the interview that opens the film and then never again if I’m not mistaken. There are pictures hanging on the walls, one of David Hilbert (a German mathematician) and his Hilbert curve and another of Lydia with markings (kené) being painted on her face by a leader of the Shipibo-Conibo tribe. They’re both similar patterns and we see them associated with Krista, both on her face in the trailer shot and in the book she leaves Lydia.
The description of the Hilbert curve is very parallel to what we see in Lydia’s description of her experience of the Shipibo-Conibo culture, a continuous curve that repeats itself in a pattern, which maps between a 1D and 2D space. Lydia says: “The Shipibo-Conibo only receive an icaro if the singer is there on the same side of the spirit that created it, in that way, the past and present converge. It’s the flip sides of the same cosmic coin” and this intertwines with what was mentioned before about the connection between two different spaces, past and present, death and life.
Her connection to Krista and this haunting she’s going through makes more sense with that in mind. The repeating pattern also references Lydia’s behavior, and the apparent abuse of power that is customary for her. All of these problems and the “cancellation” she’s facing are the past coming back to influence the present, again symbolizing the continuous nature of time. And it’s reflected in everything Lydia says about the notion of time in music, about her job of guiding time within the orchestral performance. She’s also getting older and it’s a point of observation that JV said in this thread a while back, that for him the movie was about getting older.
There is reason enough to believe that the snake in Lydia’s dreams is Yacumama/Ronin. This deity is part of the Shipibo-Konibo creed, and his story is very relevant to everything I’ve been talking about. They believe that it was this serpent who gave a woman a plant called “piri piri”, when pouring its sap into her eyes, the “Kene” would be revealed in her visions, an art of geometric designs, which would serve as cartography to guide her along the paths to the reunion with Ronin, the creator. During a dream, when the snake is approaching from the water, Lydia’s heart catches fire, perhaps representing Lydia’s desire to carry out this encounter. This image is very reminiscent of her moment at the end of the film, reconnecting with her surroundings at the waterfall in the Philippines. Maybe what she needed to guide her back to herself was to break the patterns she was living in. My interpretation of the ending is somewhat inconclusive, but perhaps because it is not an ending per se, but a new beginning, and in this film that defies the notion of time, that would make sense.
Anyway, too long a post to verbalize thoughts that have been bubbling in my mind. It started as a praise for the production design and turned into a messy interpretation of the film’s themes but ok, they’re intertwined anyway.
This post was found to be inappropriate by the moderators and has been removed.Very long post alert that probably no one will read and that you are welcome to ignore, but that I think might be worth it to someone.
I watched Tár for the third time with a friend of mine over the holidays. Despite still having some problems with the film, it gets better with each new watch. What the film revealed this time around was the extent of the production design work. I was quite surprised at how much detail I missed in these sets, which really revealed a whole new layer of the story for me.
One thing that impressed me from the first time I watched the film was the architecture of the buildings chosen for filming, the grandeur and how different buildings were seamlessly blended into just one fictional location (the concert hall is filmed in several different buildings and the offices are studio built). I remember many years ago seeing an article about the apartment they used as Lydia and Sharon’s home. The story of the apartment is that it was a bunker that has been converted into an art gallery and penthouse, but the beautiful set dressing brought a real sense of coziness inside the “impersonal” place, and it serves well as a visual metaphor of the only place in Lydia’s life where any tenderness flourishes. The piano being the centerpiece of both of Lydia’s Berlin apartments is also very defining.
Speaking of her old apartment (which seems to be used more as an escape, a place where she can be alone with the music), I think it’s the most intriguing set for me. The colors are cold and luxury is not as present, but Lydia seems to feel more comfortable in it. The apartment is decorated with artifacts from indigenous cultures in the Amazon, she mentions this trip in the interview that opens the film and then never again if I’m not mistaken. There are pictures hanging on the walls, one of David Hilbert (a German mathematician) and his Hilbert curve and another of Lydia with markings (kené) being painted on her face by a leader of the Shipibo-Conibo tribe. They’re both similar patterns and we see them associated with Krista, both on her face in the trailer shot and in the book she leaves Lydia.
The description of the Hilbert curve is very parallel to what we see in Lydia’s description of her experience of the Shipibo-Conibo culture, a continuous curve that repeats itself in a pattern, which maps between a 1D and 2D space. Lydia says: “The Shipibo-Conibo only receive an icaro if the singer is there on the same side of the spirit that created it, in that way, the past and present converge. It’s the flip sides of the same cosmic coin” and this intertwines with what was mentioned before about the connection between two different spaces, past and present, death and life.
Her connection to Krista and this haunting she’s going through makes more sense with that in mind. The repeating pattern also references Lydia’s behavior, and the apparent abuse of power that is customary for her. All of these problems and the “cancellation” she’s facing are the past coming back to influence the present, again symbolizing the continuous nature of time. And it’s reflected in everything Lydia says about the notion of time in music, about her job of guiding time within the orchestral performance. She’s also getting older and it’s a point of observation that JV said in this thread a while back, that for him the movie was about getting older.
There is reason enough to believe that the snake in Lydia’s dreams is Yacumama/Ronin. This deity is part of the Shipibo-Konibo creed, and his story is very relevant to everything I’ve been talking about. They believe that it was this serpent who gave a woman a plant called “piri piri”, when pouring its sap into her eyes, the “Kene” would be revealed in her visions, an art of geometric designs, which would serve as cartography to guide her along the paths to the reunion with Ronin, the creator. During a dream, when the snake is approaching from the water, Lydia’s heart catches fire, perhaps representing Lydia’s desire to carry out this encounter. This image is very reminiscent of her moment at the end of the film, reconnecting with her surroundings at the waterfall in the Philippines. Maybe what she needed to guide her back to herself was to break the patterns she was living in. My interpretation of the ending is somewhat inconclusive, but perhaps because it is not an ending per se, but a new beginning, and in this film that defies the notion of time, that would make sense.
Anyway, too long a post to verbalize thoughts that have been bubbling in my mind. It started as a praise for the production design and turned into a messy interpretation of the film’s themes but ok, they’re intertwined anyway.Thank you.
ReplyCopy URLThe Sunne in Splendour.
I prefer my roses whiteI went to se this movie with expectations of liking or perhaps loving it. It got a grade of F from me. I hated every single aspect of this film – every single rotten moment of having to spend time with these despicable characters. This movie is PRETENTIOUS DRIVEL! No wonder the critics are drooling all over it. Cate Blanchett is always competent but who wants to spend two and a half hours with this horrendous despicable character? Not me. Worst screenplay, even worse direction, just couldn’t wait to leave the movie theater and wash off the stench from this piece of cinematic garbage! I am not surprised at it’s awards success since critics are idiots these days but I am happy that audiences have had the good sense to stay away from it in droves! It is a BOX OFFICE BOMB!!!!! This isn’t a beloved performance by audiences and that is why I do not think Blanchett will prevail at the Oscars. It’s a critics darling movie. We get a few of these every year. If she wins a third Oscar it will be due to a lack of consensus around another of the nominees and for no other reason imo. (I am predicting Michelle Yeoh will win the Oscar at this point).
My best friend would feel exactly this way; I wouldn’t even broach the subject of his watching it. Yet it sounds you got through it. Is that because of Blanchett’s performance? For a performance to be “beloved”, must the character be sympathetic for you? I suppose I’m thinking of Anthony Hopkins Lecter turn being beloved.
ReplyCopy URLVery long post alert that probably no one will read and that you are welcome to ignore, but that I think might be worth it to someone. I watched Tár for the third time with a friend of mine over the holidays. Despite still having some problems with the film, it gets better with each new watch. What the film revealed this time around was the extent of the production design work. I was quite surprised at how much detail I missed in these sets, which really revealed a whole new layer of the story for me. One thing that impressed me from the first time I watched the film was the architecture of the buildings chosen for filming, the grandeur and how different buildings were seamlessly blended into just one fictional location (the concert hall is filmed in several different buildings and the offices are studio built). I remember many years ago seeing an article about the apartment they used as Lydia and Sharon’s home. The story of the apartment is that it was a bunker that has been converted into an art gallery and penthouse, but the beautiful set dressing brought a real sense of coziness inside the “impersonal” place, and it serves well as a visual metaphor of the only place in Lydia’s life where any tenderness flourishes. The piano being the centerpiece of both of Lydia’s Berlin apartments is also very defining. Speaking of her old apartment (which seems to be used more as an escape, a place where she can be alone with the music), I think it’s the most intriguing set for me. The colors are cold and luxury is not as present, but Lydia seems to feel more comfortable in it. The apartment is decorated with artifacts from indigenous cultures in the Amazon, she mentions this trip in the interview that opens the film and then never again if I’m not mistaken. There are pictures hanging on the walls, one of David Hilbert (a German mathematician) and his Hilbert curve and another of Lydia with markings (kené) being painted on her face by a leader of the Shipibo-Conibo tribe. They’re both similar patterns and we see them associated with Krista, both on her face in the trailer shot and in the book she leaves Lydia. The description of the Hilbert curve is very parallel to what we see in Lydia’s description of her experience of the Shipibo-Conibo culture, a continuous curve that repeats itself in a pattern, which maps between a 1D and 2D space. Lydia says: “The Shipibo-Conibo only receive an icaro if the singer is there on the same side of the spirit that created it, in that way, the past and present converge. It’s the flip sides of the same cosmic coin” and this intertwines with what was mentioned before about the connection between two different spaces, past and present, death and life. Her connection to Krista and this haunting she’s going through makes more sense with that in mind. The repeating pattern also references Lydia’s behavior, and the apparent abuse of power that is customary for her. All of these problems and the “cancellation” she’s facing are the past coming back to influence the present, again symbolizing the continuous nature of time. And it’s reflected in everything Lydia says about the notion of time in music, about her job of guiding time within the orchestral performance. She’s also getting older and it’s a point of observation that JV said in this thread a while back, that for him the movie was about getting older. There is reason enough to believe that the snake in Lydia’s dreams is Yacumama/Ronin. This deity is part of the Shipibo-Konibo creed, and his story is very relevant to everything I’ve been talking about. They believe that it was this serpent who gave a woman a plant called “piri piri”, when pouring its sap into her eyes, the “Kene” would be revealed in her visions, an art of geometric designs, which would serve as cartography to guide her along the paths to the reunion with Ronin, the creator. During a dream, when the snake is approaching from the water, Lydia’s heart catches fire, perhaps representing Lydia’s desire to carry out this encounter. This image is very reminiscent of her moment at the end of the film, reconnecting with her surroundings at the waterfall in the Philippines. Maybe what she needed to guide her back to herself was to break the patterns she was living in. My interpretation of the ending is somewhat inconclusive, but perhaps because it is not an ending per se, but a new beginning, and in this film that defies the notion of time, that would make sense. Anyway, too long a post to verbalize thoughts that have been bubbling in my mind. It started as a praise for the production design and turned into a messy interpretation of the film’s themes but ok, they’re intertwined anyway.
It was wonderful to read this interpretation laslo.
I personally too interpret the ending as a new beginning for Lydia. Throughout the film, at various instances we’ve seen Lydia seem a bit disconnected while practising her piano (don’t get me wrong: she’s still dedicated to an extent but we don’t see that spark instead we see her getting easily distracted by the noise in the adjacent apartment and her playing with her hair) but in the Philippines, we have a brief glimpse at Lydia very passionately making notes while eating at a table in the rain and to me that actually is a hint of it being a new beginning for her as she’s guided back to what she loves at its core and that’s music. All the superficial glory and ego which had tampered with her holy love for music have been eradicated and its now just her along with what she loves the most.
ReplyCopy URLThat’s interesting, I took the ending completely differently. In the beginning of the film Tar talks about how her favorite part of being a conductor is being able to put her own interpretation on the music by controlling the tempo. At the end the orchestra is doing a live performance of a video game soundtrack, and at these types of events the music has to match up with the video that’s playing on the screens behind the orchestra. She has to keep the music at a certain tempo in order to do that. She isn’t able to do her own spin on the piece or really do any interpretation of it at all. Even as a conductor she has been stripped of all power and control. To me the ending signified one final humiliating blow.
ReplyCopy URLIt was wonderful to read this interpretation laslo. I personally too interpret the ending as a new beginning for Lydia. Throughout the film, at various instances we’ve seen Lydia seem a bit disconnected while practising her piano (don’t get me wrong: she’s still dedicated to an extent but we don’t see that spark instead we see her getting easily distracted by the noise in the adjacent apartment and her playing with her hair) but in the Philippines, we have a brief glimpse at Lydia very passionately making notes while eating at a table in the rain and to me that actually is a hint of it being a new beginning for her as she’s guided back to what she loves at its core and that’s music. All the superficial glory and ego which had tampered with her holy love for music have been eradicated and its now just her along with what she loves the most.
Thanks Manav. Reading my post again now, it’s pretty messy and confusing but I’m glad you understood what I meant to say with it!
That’s interesting, I took the ending completely differently. In the beginning of the film Tar talks about how her favorite part of being a conductor is being able to put her own interpretation on the music by controlling the tempo. At the end the orchestra is doing a live performance of a video game soundtrack, and at these types of events the music has to match up with the video that’s playing on the screens behind the orchestra. She has to keep the music at a certain tempo in order to do that. She isn’t able to do her own spin on the piece or really do any interpretation of it at all. Even as a conductor she has been stripped of all power and control. To me the ending signified one final humiliating blow.
To be honest I think Todd Field proposes this film as an open conversation, he gives you a lot of facts and expects you to come up with the interpretation, so I think different interpretations can be relevant.
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I think the ending is designed for us to question what is an artistic peak, and especially for us to question the nature of the film, is it a film with a downward trajectory or an inward trajectory?
Lydia lost everything she considered important to maintain her social status, she lost her prestige as a conductor, she lost all the yes people around her that allowed her to be corrupted by power.
She “lost everything”, but throughout the movie she couldn’t compose a line of a song for her daughter and for the first time at the end of the movie we see her vehemently focused on creating music, she “lost everything” but it’s the only moment in the movie where we don’t see her being haunted by Krista, she “lost everything” but she spends the movie having these “dreams” and only at the end of the movie do we see her in the water connecting with her surroundings. I think this ending is intended to dismantle the notion that prestige is tied to personal fulfillment and how “losing it all” is a matter of perspective, as for an artist it provides the possibility for personal re-centering and for a new beginning (like Lydia herself says: Time is the thing). But you’re right about this also being the “final blow”, as it’s everything Lydia has strived against her entire life and strips her away from everything she’s fought for. But since Field mentions that Lydia lost that argument at Harvard, I think he wants us to think of everything in more than one way.I think the “missing piece of the TAR puzzle” is exactly in this open conversation we are all having as it is left for interpretation to what comes next for Lydia. Is her playing to cosplayers the ultimate fall, something she will never recover from – becoming thing she hated the most? Or is she getting a second chance in reinventing herself and probably just the first chapter of her return to the top.
Just as we can imagine TAR 2 being about Lydia in Philippines/Taiwan/Thailand just doing what she hated the most, so it can be like reinventing herself and returning to the top. This is interesting about the movie – it does not give us definite conclusions of how our cancel culture works, it just asks the questions and we need to figure them out. Do we believe in complete ostracization of “cancelled” celebrities, or do we believe in second chances? And then we can ask ourselves – if all those celebrities were salivating over Brad Pitt at the Globes, and many supported Depp, how definite the entire cancel culture is?
ReplyCopy URLSpreading the Love: Oscars 2023
Best Picture: Everything Everywhere All At Once
Best Director: The Daniels
Best Actor: Colin Farrell
Best Actress: Cate Blanchett
Best Supporting Actor: Ke Huy Quan
Best Supporting Actress: Angela BassettI think the “missing piece of the TAR puzzle” is exactly in this open conversation we are all having as it is left for interpretation to what comes next for Lydia. Is her playing to cosplayers the ultimate fall, something she will never recover from – becoming thing she hated the most? Or is she getting a second chance in reinventing herself and probably just the first chapter of her return to the top. Just as we can imagine TAR 2 being about Lydia in Philippines/Taiwan/Thailand just doing what she hated the most, so it can be like reinventing herself and returning to the top. This is interesting about the movie – it does not give us definite conclusions of how our cancel culture works, it just asks the questions and we need to figure them out. Do we believe in complete ostracization of “cancelled” celebrities, or do we believe in second chances? And then we can ask ourselves – if all those celebrities were salivating over Brad Pitt at the Globes, and many supported Depp, how definite the entire cancel culture is?
Kevin Spacey won an award the other day in Italy. In our real World: it seems cancel culture don’t work. Roman Polanski is releasing a new movie starring Mickey Rourke. Woody Allen is releasing a new movie in Cannes 2023. Kevin Spacey is working in Europe. And Johnny Depp is Directing a new movie starring Al Pacino
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