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TÁR (Cate Blanchett, Todd Field)

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  • film123
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    #1205142786

    I just saw the film and it’s a Todd Field film for sure. I’m reminded of In the Bedroom with which I also struggle to connect. It starts off super pretentious and it ends up feeling a little pedantic. I think the heavy-handed feeling will probably resonate differently later down the road. I can completely 100% understand why critics would love it and why voters might do what they did to ITB and LC to Tar … nominations all over the place but no wins. Cate demonstrates an incomparable ability to make the character a believable person. That being said, I don’t how many of us would be around a person like that. Cate has a few scenes that feel like what we saw in Blue Jasmine. I definitely laughed at the ridiculousness of the character. It’s not meant to be a criticism. Noémie and Nina are very strong but there is no development of either character. They serve Lydia solely and are background music. I walked out to buy a pretzel after two hours in and it didn’t take anything away. But where was Alec Baldwin? The ending was NOT good. It feel like reading an addendum and then, are we supposed to laugh at the ludicrous last shot? I could hear muttering from NYC audience members going “WTF???” And “uhhhh ok?”.And the credits???!!! I won’t spoil anything but that timing made it feel like I was watching the movie for educational purposes.

    Tar is so pretentious and I feel like any scene that wasn’t the first interview, lecture, and emails are just filler. I rolled my eyes every time Field inserted a random classical music composer. Has he been around musicians? They don’t name drop classical musicians like that or go on tangents about their background lol.

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    Mladen
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    #1205142790

    I don’t even think it would make as much as Carol. Apart from the fact that the box office is still not where it needs to be at the moment. Carol was far more digestible. You didn’t need to be a music genius to understand many scenes in the movie. It was just a love story. And there’s nothing more universal than love.

    Blanchett always underlines how many people who approach her actually has seen Carol and loved it. Carol has that niche status among LGBTQ viewers.

    As for BO, I was referring to the proportion of earned money, rather than money itself. I feel like “TAR” might go better with European and Australian viewership than Americans. It is a theory, though.

    Spreading the Love: Oscars 2023
    Best Picture: Everything Everywhere All At Once
    Best Director: The Daniels
    Best Actor: Colin Farrell
    Best Actress: Cate Blanchett
    Best Supporting Actor: Ke Huy Quan
    Best Supporting Actress: Angela Bassett

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    Joe Langer
    Joined:
    Dec 5th, 2021
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    #1205143203

    I just saw the film and it’s a Todd Field film for sure. I’m reminded of In the Bedroom with which I also struggle to connect. It starts off super pretentious and it ends up feeling a little pedantic. I think the heavy-handed feeling will probably resonate differently later down the road. I can completely 100% understand why critics would love it and why voters might do what they did to ITB and LC to Tar … nominations all over the place but no wins. Cate demonstrates an incomparable ability to make the character a believable person. That being said, I don’t how many of us would be around a person like that. Cate has a few scenes that feel like what we saw in Blue Jasmine. I definitely laughed at the ridiculousness of the character. It’s not meant to be a criticism. Noémie and Nina are very strong but there is no development of either character. They serve Lydia solely and are background music. I walked out to buy a pretzel after two hours in and it didn’t take anything away. But where was Alec Baldwin? The ending was NOT good. It feel like reading an addendum and then, are we supposed to laugh at the ludicrous last shot? I could hear muttering from NYC audience members going “WTF???” And “uhhhh ok?”.And the credits???!!! I won’t spoil anything but that timing made it feel like I was watching the movie for educational purposes.

    Tar is an inferior film to both in the bedroom and little children and I would rank both Sissy’s and Kate’s performances over Cate’s. Those two actresses really made the character believable. The screenplay makes Lydia feel less like a person and the last fourth of the film is really underwhelming. Cate has done much better in Carol and elizabeth.

    Member of the Screen Actors Guild. Inducted in 1999.

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    wolfali
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    Sep 4th, 2018
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    #1205169505

    This was a riveting psychological slow burn. You felt like you were stepping into Tár’s shoes whilst watching this movie whilst simultaneously being closed off from the world and stepping into a truly cinematic realm for two hours. I liked that particular amalgamation of the realism of the world encompassing Tar with the colourful, euphoric and nauseating state of Lydia’s mind as she battles the conflicts she faces throughout the film. It really grounded you as a viewer into the experience.

    It’s not a perfect film of course even if it will likely be one of my top 5 of the year. I do think the film is set back by some limitations in its screenplay in that it’s very clear that Lydia Tar is written by a man and I’m not entirely sure whether some of Field’s commentary is particularly subversive or goes beyond being surface level. But at the same time I do appreciate that this film at its core is a character study and that Field does avoid constraining Tar as a character to tropes that would have dragged the film down.

    I’m not sure if there is really anything to say about Blanchett’s performance that hasn’t been said but suffice to say she was incredible. I got the sense throughout watching the film that Tar is a character who is very much written as a tragic hero (although I’m very much looking forward to reading the screenplay) and the final act of the film does solidify that but I think what’s so fascinating about Blanchett’s performance is how much she plays her as a character. I think it’s very easy for people of a similar generation to myself to associate Tar as a character with real life academics and lecturers one has come across (especially if you have been in particularly European educational establishments and have studied a discipline in the arts) but I think what makes Blanchett’s characterisation so fascinating is that whilst Tar has committed some particularly gruesome and horrific actions in her time as a conductor you’re not really asked to have your opinion challenged of a character like her or made to sympathise with her during her plight but rather understand the world around her. I guess in a sense her performance reminds me of Daniel Day-Lewis’ in Phantom Thread a couple of years ago. Just like Reynolds Woodcock, Lydia Tar is a Vile character. But as messed up and unforgiveable as she is as a character, she also is a fully fledged human being. I still prefer Danielle Deadwyler’s performance in Till to Blanchett’s and will probably root for her to win until the end but just like with Olivia Colman last year I do hope Blanchett receives an adequate amount of recognition this season (I’m glad she won the Volpi). Ditto with Nina Hoss who I thought was excellent and really said a lot with so little screen time. I have to say every year people always talk about how nice it would be for each of the televised awards to go to a different performer in the best actress category but this is the first year in a while I have actually felt that. Danielle Deadwyler would be my pick to win the Oscar but I’d be very happy if Blanchett won the BAFTA or Yeoh won the SAG or Tang and Thompson won the Globes (as incredibly unlikely that scenario of course is).

    I don’t know if any of the crafts on this film would particularly be my personal picks to win their categories but I’d be delighted if Florian Hoffmeister received some recognition for his Cinematography or Hildur Guinaddotir received recognition for her score. Because whilst their work on this film isn’t conventionally baity I just think it works perfectly in diegesis with the film’s narrative and if these awards don’t award the crafts of a film for helping to supplement the film’s arc then I honestly don’t know what use they are there for.

    FYC: Better Call Saul, The English and The Good Fight in all categories including Emily Blunt, Bob Odenkirk, Christine Baranski and Rhea Seehorn.

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    cannastop
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    Jun 7th, 2022
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    #1205173799

    https://www.vox.com/culture/23484805/best-movies-2022-streaming-theaters

    Vox also has a top 25 of 2022.

    #1 is Tár

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    nevkm
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    Jan 3rd, 2018
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    #1205173857

    https://www.vox.com/culture/23484805/best-movies-2022-streaming-theaters Vox also has a top 25 of 2022. #1 is Tár

    Also #2 on the indiewire top (with Aftersun #1, EEAAO #3 and Banshees #4)

    https://www.indiewire.com/gallery/best-movies-2022/

     

     

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    kamila
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    #1205173868

    I don’t know if any of the crafts on this film would particularly be my personal picks to win their categories but I’d be delighted if Florian Hoffmeister received some recognition for his Cinematography or Hildur Guinaddotir received recognition for her score. Because whilst their work on this film isn’t conventionally baity I just think it works perfectly in diegesis with the film’s narrative and if these awards don’t award the crafts of a film for helping to supplement the film’s arc then I honestly don’t know what use they are there for.

    A nomination for Guinaddotir for this over (or in addition to) Women Talking would be incredibly inspired.

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    cannastop
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    #1205173874

    A nomination for Guinaddotir for this over (or in addition to) Women Talking would be incredibly inspired.

    You don’t really hear the original score in the actual movie though… no way it gets in

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    kamila
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    #1205173890

    You don’t really hear the original score in the actual movie though… no way it gets in

    I don’t think it has great chances either, although they’re campaigning it more than I thought they would. I just like the idea of the Score category expanding beyond conventional choices and rewarding scores that serve the specific purposes of their film.

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    laslo
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    Oct 19th, 2021
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    #1205173898

    A nomination for Guinaddotir for this over (or in addition to) Women Talking would be incredibly inspired.

    Seriously? I can’t remember any scene where I heard the score. In the scenes where she was being “haunted” there was a trace of the score but too muted for me to be able to distinguish Guðnadóttir’s work.
    She wrote 6 tracks that are on the original album, but 2 of them are versions of the same composition (For Petra, the song that Lydia is writing and that plays during the credits, not used within the movie). It’s a very mutated work, not apparent in the film and very brief (even on the album I don’t think it reaches 30 minutes of material). I consider her work for Women Talking to be far superior and more ambitious, but I respect your opinion.

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    kamila
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    #1205173918

    It’s a very mutated work, not apparent in the film and very brief (even on the album I don’t think it reaches 40 minutes of material). I consider her work for Women Talking to be far superior and more ambitious, but I respect your opinion.

    It’s very muted and soundscape-y but I think it does a lot especially for the middle section of the film where Tar’s subconscious and the foreboding, near-horror feel of the film come through. I know the volume of the work might not seem as much as other films, but I do think it serves a purpose and succeeds, especially considering it can be difficult to figure out how to score a film so centered on orchestra.

    Don’t get me wrong, I loved Women Talking’s score and the main theme has stayed with me since I saw it. But that score as used in the film is also fairly repetitive. I don’t know where TAR’s score would fall in my rankings, but I appreciate what it’s doing. Maybe it’s a quality vs. quantity thing. There are definitely scores I’ve heard this season that I think really detract from what’s onscreen (can’t underline Till enough here) so maybe the less is more approach earned some extra points from me.

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    laslo
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    #1205173935

    It’s very muted and soundscape-y but I think it does a lot especially for the middle section of the film where Tar’s subconscious and the foreboding, near-horror feel of the film come through. I know the volume of the work might not seem as much as other films, but I do think it serves a purpose and succeeds, especially considering it can be difficult to figure out how to score a film so centered on orchestra. Don’t get me wrong, I loved Women Talking’s score and the main theme has stayed with me since I saw it. But that score as used in the film is also fairly repetitive. I don’t know where TAR’s score would fall in my rankings, but I appreciate what it’s doing. Maybe it’s a quality vs. quantity thing. There are definitely scores I’ve heard this season that I think really detract from what’s onscreen (can’t underline Till enough here) so maybe the less is more approach earned some extra points from me.

    I understand, because I also have a problem with mediocre scores being used badly this year (insert Till here).
    But most of what you mentioned is the work of the sound department. The sound and sound effects editors worked extensively on the film, but it doesn’t necessarily have to do with the score. The score enters very rarely and almost every time it is imperceptible. There is beauty in this almost invisible work, and I understand you saying that Women Talking’s score is a bit repetitive, but I find the two almost incomparable. Because in Women Talking the score is such an integral part of the film and it drives the narrative brilliantly.
    I had said that Guðnadóttir’s work for Tár doesn’t reach 40 minutes but I counted and it’s actually 27 minutes, including the vocal version of For Petra. But like I said, these are just opinions, I respect that you think her work was better here.

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    kamila
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    #1205173948

    There is beauty in this almost invisible work, and I understand you saying that Women Talking’s score is a bit repetitive, but I find the two almost incomparable. Because in Women Talking the score is such an integral part of the film and it drives the narrative brilliantly. I had said that Guðnadóttir’s work for Tár doesn’t reach 40 minutes but I counted and it’s actually 27 minutes, including the vocal version of For Petra. But like I said, these are just opinions, I respect that you think her work was better here.

    Yeah and to make it clear, I’m not saying I would personally rank TAR’s Score higher than Women Talking’s. It would just be surprising and interesting if TAR’s Score was preferred or also contending. I think both succeed and are well matched to their films.

    I agree that the distinction between score and sound in TAR is extremely subtle. To me, the film should be a slam dunk Sound contender, but we’ll have to see. If you’re interested, there are some write-ups on the score that discuss this better than I can.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/awards/story/2022-11-16/score-hildur-gu%C3%B0nadottir-tar-women-talking

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    laslo
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    #1205173970

    Yeah and to make it clear, I’m not saying I would personally rank TAR’s Score higher than Women Talking’s. It would just be surprising and interesting if TAR’s Score was preferred or also contending. I think both succeed and are well matched to their films. I agree that the distinction between score and sound in TAR is extremely subtle. To me, the film should be a slam dunk Sound contender, but we’ll have to see. If you’re interested, there are some write-ups on the score that discuss this better than I can. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/awards/story/2022-11-16/score-hildur-gu%C3%B0nadottir-tar-women-talking

    Yes, I had already read that article, I really like Guðnadóttir’s work and I follow her closely.
    When Tár was released, everyone who saw it thought that the film didn’t have an original score, so they did this press tour to make it very public that there was a score indeed but that it was imperceptible. As I said, I agree that there is beauty in a non-traditional score that serves the film in a different way, but I watched the film again at home, with headphones on, and I still can’t distinguish where this score is present. The tracks on the album are quite elegant, but still wouldn’t warrant a nomination in my opinion since it’s so independent from the film. It would have been really cool if they had used For Petra at some point in the movie, but it is what it is.
    Now about your comment about the sound work I’m going to have to agree. When I first watched it the extensive sound manipulations bothered me A LOT. The mix sounded almost amateurish to me. But when I watched it at home I understood the purpose of it. Lydia is the conductor of one of the greatest orchestras in the world, she has had her ear trained for many years. She has hyperawareness of the sound around her and a great sensitivity to everyday sounds. The sound work serves the story really well, and is done very interestingly. I don’t remember many movies this year that did anything too different with sound design and mixing. I think a nomination for sound would be much more inspired than in the case of the score.

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    mafro987
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    #1205174293

    Ditto with Nina Hoss who I thought was excellent and really said a lot with so little screen time.

    Completely agree. Hoss made so much of so little relative screen time, and will almost certainly make my personal top 5 (I have her 2nd after Condon, though I haven’t seen The Whale and a few other Supporting Actress contenders). I was wondering what your thoughts on Merlant were?

    FYC: Danielle Deadwyler, Best Actress in a Leading Role

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