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The category fraud thread

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  • rlk
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    #1203140599

    There must have been film since Amadeus and Thelma And Louise where there was a possibility of a double nom???

    I wouldn’t say recent examples, but you had William Hurt and Raul Julia in Kiss of the Spider Woman, Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise in Rain Man, Gene Hackman and Willem Dafoe in Mississippi Burning, or Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington in Philadelphia. Hurt, Hoffman and Hanks won; Hackman was nominated. Their co-leads were not. The “four Hs” were touted by critics louder, but maybe those were realistic possibilities.

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    Eddy Q
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    #1203140697

    After last years shocking display looks like the fraud is going to be just as rampant this year.

    Brad Pit
    Jennifer Lopez
    Meryl Streep
    Mindy Kaling
    Matt Damon
    Tom Hanks
    Anthony Hopkins
    Christian Bale

    All various degrees of fraudulent or at least questionable placement and that’s just the A list stars.

    Also Willem Dafoe.

    Is Hanks not truly supporting in A Beautiful Day then? I read that his character is less central than the ads would suggest.

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    Rachel
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    #1203140732

    Willem Dafoe is definitely a co-lead in The Lighthouse.

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    thatnerdgreg
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    #1203142648

    Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Frank Finlay was nominated in supporting for playing Iago while Laurence Olivier was nominated in lead for playing Othello in the same film, even though Iago is the show’s true main character despite also being its villain. Interestingly, Finlay had more lines (which I believe is true of all productions and adaptations, unless if they make significant cuts to Iago’s dialogue and leave Othello’s intact) while Olivier had slightly more screen time. The two of them should’ve been nominated in lead together. Also, while Kenneth Branagh wasn’t nominated for an Oscar when he played Iago, he was nominated at SAG in supporting.

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    Eddy Q
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    #1203142651

    ^ Maggie Smith should have been in lead too. The play Otello has three lead roles: Otello, Iago and Desdemona.

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    Elazul
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    #1203144682

    Meryl Streep of The Laundromat is quite a special case, one can argue for both lead and supporting…

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    Baby Clyde
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    #1203153877

    Also Willem Dafoe.

    Is Hanks not truly supporting in A Beautiful Day then? I read that his character is less central than the ads would suggest.

    Totally borderline. Not his story but the story doesn’t exist without him. He’s also top billed and Tom Hanks!!!

    I’d call him the secondary Lead.

    It’s not fraud exactly but there was a time when huge movie stars in large borderline Supporting roles would automatically go Lead. It was deemed undignified seem to go Supporting and compete against newcomers and character actors. This unfortunately is no longer the case.

    David Niven
    Marlon Brando
    Peter Finch
    Forrest Whitaker

    Amongst others all in a similar boat, all went Lead and won.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Baby Clyde.
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    Baby Clyde
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    #1203153885

    Meryl Streep of The Laundromat is quite a special case, one can argue for both lead and supporting…

    Luckily we don’t have to worry about it cos she’s not getting in for either.

    But again I would say that if you’re Meryl Streep and it’s borderline then you’re Lead. Top billed with no other possible Lead characters and 2 roles to boot. There isn’t one central character asuch but she’s as close as you get.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Baby Clyde.
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    thatnerdgreg
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    #1203154008

    I was thinking last night of just how ridiculous Jacob Tremblay’s supporting placement was. Not only is he the true lead of Room, but he would’ve had an easier time getting nominated in lead than he would’ve in supporting, as the latter but was way more crowded than the former. I definitely could’ve seen him knock out Redmayne’s Oscar bait or Cranston’s name check.

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    Jesse
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    #1203154046

    I’d like for a committee that strictly regulates Category Fraud and actually enforced it properly. However, if so I think it should be accompanied with the Lead categories being expanded to at least 6, because the idea of one film dominating 40% of a leading category is so daunting.

    Also I truly believe Jennifer Lopez is supporting and amazing in Hustlers and that if she wasn’t a star there wouldn’t be scrutiny about it. On screen time and charcter arc, Constance Wu is the sole lead imo

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    Jesse
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    #1203154054

    Also, screen time is a valueable tool but it’s the not completely accurate. A charcter can be on screen with the lead but the way that that screen time contributes to the plot and arcs is not equal. For example Viola being silent yet in screen during Denzel’s monologue (although I think She could’ve won Lead).
    Also in the Case of Hustlers, there is screen time of JLO dancing, but the scene is about Constance – her awe, her amazement. JLO’s screen time is in service of the Lead’s arc. Even the red-lit stripping scenes. Both are onscreen together but that screen time is about Constance’s character growing comfortable, not about JLO’s character.
    So screen time is interesting but context, character and plot are important considerations.

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    AndMore
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    #1203154060

    I would say Lopez is a clear Supporting contender. Don’t see any category fraud there.

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    Thatcher, Former Prime Minister of GoldDerby
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    #1203154084

    Darlings, Booty isn’t leading at all. It’s Constance Wu’s story all the time.

    I was your Prime Minister once.

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    Elazul
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    #1203154522

    Also, screen time is a valueable tool but it’s the not completely accurate. A charcter can be on screen with the lead but the way that that screen time contributes to the plot and arcs is not equal. For example Viola being silent yet in screen during Denzel’s monologue (although I think She could’ve won Lead).

    Yeah I guess this justifies Brenda Flicker and Marcia Gay Harden.

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    Baby Clyde
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    #1203154576

    I’m not arguing that J.Lo is clear cut category fraud just that the role could just as easily have been placed in Lead and no one would have complained. Constance is clearly the Lead of the film but all that means is that she could only be placed in that category, it doesn’t mean that no one else should join her. To me Supporting should be for the lesser characters, those that don’t drive the plot, aren’t played by A List names and don’t have all of a films publicity based around them. In the past J.Lo would have gone Lead. Hers isn’t an offensive case but is certainly open for debate.

    Obviously there are cases of huge stars appearing in true supporting roles – Pacino in The Irishman this year is clear example – but according to Goldderby’s current predictions he’s going to be joined by Brad Pitt, Tom Hanks, Willem Dafoe and Anthony Hopkins all of of whom are questionable at best and downright criminal at worst. This is a ridiculous state of affairs. Especially bizarre in Hopkins case who insisted on going Lead for Silence of The Lambs in what was an obvious Supporting role.

    By the current definition of Supporting Bette in All About Eve could be shunted off there.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  Baby Clyde.
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