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Joe Alwyn now credited as a producer and AOTY winner for Folklore

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    Donnna
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    #1204219652

    Apparently, the producers of 21 and 25 are all established and reputable producers that each exclusively produced a track at least. It’s not comparable at all.

    You don’t have to be established to win. You just have to be credited. If the producers aren’t complaining that Joe took their share of credit, it is not up for discussion.

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    PopGuy
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    #1204219663

    Apparently, the producers of 21 and 25 are all established and reputable producers that each exclusively produced a track at least. It’s not comparable at all.

    Established or non established it doesn’t matter. Taylor has expressed that she worked on a lot of the songs on folklore/evermore during the quarantine with Joe. This is probably her way of thanking him. Taylor has always been generous with production and lyrical credit. She made Toddrick co-executive producer on the YNTCD video and Max Martin has expressed how much she gives credit to others for work that is done by mostly her.

    FYC: Grammys 2022

    AOTY: evermore
    ROTY, SOTY, Pop Solo: willow
    Pop Album: evermore
    Pop Duo: evermore w Bon Iver
    Rap Song/ Melodic Rap: closure
    Dance Recording: long story short
    Remix Recording: Love Story (elvira)
    Country Solo/Country Song: cowboy like me
    Country Duo: You All Over Me w Marren Morris
    American Roots Perf/Song: ivy
    Gospel Per: epiphany (live)
    Rock Perf/Song: ‘tis the damn season
    Music Video: willow
    Music Film: folklore studio sessions

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    alex.g
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    #1204219693

    I really doubt Joe alwyn winning one somehow made grammys teen choice. Grammys are not credible but this one incident does not change anything because Grammys did not change their rules to accomodate Taylor. Colbie won an aoty grammy for fearless for barely audible vocals one song. That did not take away aoty’s credibility.

    Those were the rules back then and while I personally thought they were bad rules, because featured vocals on one song would win an AOTY Grammy and songwriting on 33% of an album would win nothing, those were the rules, and everyone voting for Fearless knew the rules and knew that Colbie Caillat would be winning a Grammy too.

    They didn’t know that voting for folklore would give AOTY to actor Joe Alwyn, because “William Bowery” only had credits on two songs.

    Joe Alwyn winning AOTY pushes the Grammys closer to being pure celebrity awards that have nothing to do with music – if they weren’t already.

    Why does it matter if they explicitly won any awards for it or not? It’s still wrong. People shouldn’t get any credits for stuff they didn’t contribute to. If it’s about morality then that’s certainly outside the ambit of grammys too? And it’s not just the grammys, the music industry as a whole has zero credibility because this is way too commonplace. We already know a lot of pop girlies are not the singer-songwriter-producers they want to be seen. Forget ghostwriters, there’s even people pitching in “ghost vocals” now. It doesn’t get worse than this, Grammys are just a small reflection of the industry as a whole.

    This is the GoldDerby music forum where we mostly discuss the Grammys and AOTY is considered to be the most prestigious award at what many consider to be the most prestigious music award show.

    If the industry thinks it’s o.k. in the most prestigious award at the most prestigious award show, then no one further down the food chain is going to care.

    Not only will some not care, but others will be frightened to speak out about fake credits, because they don’t want to be seen to be criticising Taylor who has a lot more power than most people in the industry.

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    Robinladen
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    #1204219753

    Established or non established it doesn’t matter. Taylor has expressed that she worked on a lot of the songs on folklore/evermore during the quarantine with Joe. This is probably her way of thanking him. Taylor has always been generous with production and lyrical credit. She made Toddrick co-executive producer on the YNTCD video and Max Martin has expressed how much she gives credit to others for work that is done by mostly her.

    Yeah she might credit easily but all those people got the credit right away. If she found Joe worthy of the credit from the start, people wouldn’t have really noticed it.

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    rue
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    #1204219804

    Established or non established it doesn’t matter. Taylor has expressed that she worked on a lot of the songs on folklore/evermore during the quarantine with Joe. This is probably her way of thanking him. Taylor has always been generous with production and lyrical credit. She made [REDACTED]  co-executive producer on the YNTCD video and Max Martin has expressed how much she gives credit to others for work that is done by mostly her.

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    Clement
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    #1204219814

    Taylor crediting Joe is bullshit and fraud but are we going to pretend that Beyonce didnt just fraud Blue Ivy to a grammy win?  Are we going to ignore bigger issues like artists taking credit for work they didnt do,again, Beyonce , I love her to death but if we are to have a honest conversation, she doesn’t deserve to be credited in half her songs. Frank Ocean confirmed this in a since deleted tweet, he wrote her song, produced it next thing he knows she has both writing and producing credits for changing almost nothing, more writers have spokenon this anonymously but she’s the Queen,  she can do no wrong. Justin bieber does the same thing, listen to camilla’s demo for Anyone, only 3 words changed. I actually applaud Rihanna, she’s probably the only artist who doesn’t do this but the landscape has changed and she could start doing the same.

    The grammys are soon becoming useless, we may try to hold on to it, but its place in culture has dwindled, its refused to evolve. The ratings dont matter as long as they can remain prestigious, but that’s the problem, they are no longer about prestige and more about getting celebrities to attend. This year they told Beyonce she would win 4 awards and promised the whole ” most grammy winner” coronation to get her to attend, Beyonce was out there acting all shocked, I was like we know they gave you a heads up, please.

    The Emmys and Oscar’s will survive for years to come but the Grammys will water down to VMAS in the next 20 years. If Drake or say The weeknd or any other artist is selling millions and millions of records, do they really need a Grammy?if Kendrick and other spectacular artist ( especially those of colour)keep on producing groundbreaking albums and getting snubbed for less superior records then are the grammys really prestigious? The governors of this award show need to think about its future carefully and make radical changes if they want to survive, when albums like changes and songs like yummy start getting nominated then they need to reevaluate their values. I like the Emmys cause they always seem to evolve with the times, there is still much work to be done there but atleast they are trying, look at Zendaya’s, Lena Waithe’s , Aziz Ansari’s, Donald Glover’s, groundbreaking wins, progress has been slow but they are making an effort, and not just because these people are  POCs but because they are winners for shows that dont fit into the “traditional emmy winning shows”  In fact add in Fleabag and Watchmen. Maybe its time to expel everyone and start membership process a fresh, remove the old white men and replace them with a more diversified pool of voters in terms of gender, race and genre, put mechanisms to avoid corruption ( scooter braun am looking at you) and level the playing field. I see tough times ahead for the Grammys,  I hope they do too.

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    Boz
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    #1204220013

    Apparently, the producers of 21 and 25 are all established and reputable producers that each exclusively produced a track at least. It’s not comparable at all.

    Right, what kind of crack example was that. I don’t think Ryan Tedder and Danger Mouse are comparable to a man who’s not even a musician💀

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    Boz
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    #1204220027

    You don’t have to hate Taylor Swift to admit it is blatant fraud. It’s not far removed from artists frauding songwriting credits (in fact I’d say it’s worse considering she didn’t even credit him from the get-go).

    I also disagree Blue Ivy’s Grammy was fraud. She had vocals on the song, she’s a credited feature, and the video won. Not sure where the fraud is there considering people like Zedd and DJ Khaled frauded credits on “The Middle” and “(insert any DJ Khaled song)” without actually producing them and no one cared.

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    Jay
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    #1204220032

    I don’t think it’s our place to say whether Joe Alwyn did or did not actually contribute to at least 33 % of Folklore’s songwriting or production, but the fact that they allowed him to get included AFTER the GRAMMYs aired is very sketchy and just doesn’t sit well with me. That’s the very definition of corruption.

    FYC | Best music this season:

    Marina - Ancient Dreams In A Modern Land
    Arlo Parks - Collapsed In Sunbeams
    St. Vincent - Daddy's Home
    Jazmine Sullivan - Heaux Tales
    Wolf Alice - Blue Weekend

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    Jay
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    #1204220034

    Taylor crediting Joe is bullshit and fraud but are we going to pretend that Beyonce didnt just fraud Blue Ivy to a grammy win?

    ? Blue Ivy actually sings in Brown Skin Girl and the award for Best Music Video goes to the performing artist(s), director(s) and producer(s) per the Grammy’s rules so I’m not sure what you’re on about.

     

    FYC | Best music this season:

    Marina - Ancient Dreams In A Modern Land
    Arlo Parks - Collapsed In Sunbeams
    St. Vincent - Daddy's Home
    Jazmine Sullivan - Heaux Tales
    Wolf Alice - Blue Weekend

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    alex.g
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    #1204220078

    ? Blue Ivy actually sings in Brown Skin Girl and the award for Best Music Video goes to the performing artist(s), director(s) and producer(s) per the Grammy’s rules so I’m not sure what you’re on about.

    The reason some people mention Blue Ivy, is because she was not originally one of the nominated artists. She was added to the list of credited artists (Dec. 11) after the nominations were released {Nov. 23} and after final round voting had already started.

    Some people would have voted without knowing the updated list of credited artists.

    No-one is claiming that she doesn’t sing.

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    Boz
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    #1204220280

    The reason some people mention Blue Ivy, is because she was not originally one of the nominated artists. She was added to the list of credited artists (Dec. 11) after the nominations were released {Nov. 23} and after final round voting had already started.

    Some people would have voted without knowing the updated list of credited artists.

    No-one is claiming that she doesn’t sing.

    I don’t think anyone would care she was credited though. Everyone who voted for BSG knows the song, and everyone who knows the song knows Blue Ivy is featured as well as Wizkid. Plus she was given credit not long after noms came out, which is completely normal and allowee for featured artists; I remember Q Tip got a credit for The Chemical Brothers’ “Go” after a while.

    It’s not the same as Joe, who is not a producer, is not known to be a producer on Folklore, and who was credited after the actual win itself.

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    rue
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    #1204220287

    Yeah they should implement a rule that makes it so that the final credits are the ones submitted in the submissions process. So when cardigan got submitted it was “cardigan, written by Taylor Swift and Aaron Dessner, produced by Aaron Dessner” and any nominations/wins would be attributed only to to those initially listed.

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    maxinho
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    #1204220289

    I thought they could change or add nominees after nominations are announced, not after the winner is announced and grammys are delivered, it looks too convenient.

    I believe Taylor did that only for us to talk about it, but it’s embarrasing for the recording academy for allowing this to happen, this would’ve never happen at the oscars, emmys, there are deadlines.

    I think a winners’ certificate would’ve been enough for someone like him, I wonder what the rest of collaborators like arrangers, producers, enginners and other experimented musicians think about this.

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    Donnna
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    #1204220330

    https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/2021-grammys-complete-winners-nominees-list

    The winners list on march 14 had Joe alwyn under it(the page was last updated 12 days back). So if there was any negotiation/updating of credits it happened before. We saw all that later.

    Idk why there is a whole thread on a non issue…I am guessing ppls problem is Joe is not a musician at all because it is fine when established musicians fraud their way into winning awards.  To this I will answer , Taylor definitely thinks he contributed enough to qualify for the award, Jack and Aaron are on board so this is not up for discussion. Taylor credited someone who worked on the album with her, she did not credit her brother or mother…if she and other cowriters think Joe deserves ,no need to break head over it.

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