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Joe Alwyn now credited as a producer and AOTY winner for Folklore

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    alex.g
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    #1204220358

    https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/2021-grammys-complete-winners-nominees-list The winners list on march 14 had Joe alwyn under it(the page was last updated 12 days back). So if there was any negotiation/updating of credits it happened before. We saw all that later. Idk why there is a whole thread on a non issue…I am guessing ppls problem is Joe is not a musician at all because it is fine when established musicians fraud their way into winning awards. To this I will answer , Taylor definitely thinks he contributed enough to qualify for the award, Jack and Aaron are on board so this is not up for discussion. Taylor credited someone who worked on the album with her, she did not credit her brother or mother…if she and other cowriters think Joe deserves ,no need to break head over it.

    Right up until 12 Apr, the winners list didn’t include Joe Alwyn.

    If Taylor believed that the Grammy voters would have thought Joe deserves, she would have listed his name in the credits during the nominations/submissions phase. Clearly she didn’t believe that. Some would argue that shows a clear intent to deceive the Grammy voters.

    Imagine if The Weeknd won AOTY or SOTY during the time he was dating Selena Gomez and he put her name in the credits after he won, giving her an AOTY or SOTY win… and of course Selena is an actual musician with multiple song and album credits.

    Would everyone be o.k. with that?

    Edit: also we don’t know what Jack and Aaron think, since they didn’t lose any credits, they might not have had any say in the matter.

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    theexterminator
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    #1204220416

    What about Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne? They co-wrote SOTY winner “Stay with me” and they didn’t receive the award.

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    Donnna
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    #1204220450

    Right up until 12 Apr, the winners list didn’t include Joe Alwyn. If Taylor believed that the Grammy voters would have thought Joe deserves, she would have listed his name in the credits during the nominations/submissions phase. Clearly she didn’t believe that. Some would argue that shows a clear intent to deceive the Grammy voters. Imagine if The Weeknd won AOTY or SOTY during the time he was dating Selena Gomez and he put her name in the credits after he won, giving her an AOTY or SOTY win… and of course Selena is an actual musician with multiple song and al credits. Would everyone be o.k. with that? Edit: also we don’t know what Jack and Aaron think, since they didn’t lose any credits, they might not have had any say in the matter.

    If Weeknd did add Selena, everyone would have to be ok with it. If he thinks her contribution to his art is worthy of the award, it’s not our issue.

    What kind of deceiving…you think if grammy voters saw Joe in credits they would not have voted for Taylor and so she credited later? Because I assure you voters would not care if Joe was in the credits or not.

    And how can a songwriter/producer not have say in who is getting credited…you are telling me Taylor did not ask Jack or Aaron and credited Joe behind their back or put a gun to their head. Unless ppl associated with Folklore complain about Joe’s credits, it is a futile discussion.

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    alex.g
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    #1204220452

    What about Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne? They co-wrote SOTY winner “Stay with me” and they didn’t receive the award.

    Yes I think you have allow for people who wish to make a legitimate claim for a credit, but you don’t need to give a long period for artists to add friends and family.

    I don’t remember exactly what happened with “Stay with me”, but from my understanding Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne get paid for their song-writing share, but no Grammy in the trophy cupboard.

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    alex.g
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    #1204220464

    If Weeknd did add Selena, everyone would have to be ok with it. If he thinks her contribution to his art is worthy of the award, it’s not our issue. What kind of deceiving…you think if grammy voters saw Joe in credits they would not have voted for Taylor and so she credited later? Because I assure you voters would not care if Joe was in the credits or not. And how can a songwriter/producer not have say in who is getting credited…you are telling me Taylor did not ask Jack or Aaron and credited Joe behind their back or put a gun to their head. Unless ppl associated with Folklore complain about Joe’s credits, it is a futile discussion.

    You’re wrong on every point. No one would think it would be o.k. to sneak Selena into a major award win, when the Grammys never wanted to nominate her before.

    As stated, if Taylor thought the voters would vote for Joe, I’m sure he’d have been there from the beginning. Are you suggesting she just forgot who worked on the album?

    Edit: It’s worth remembering that the voting was probably very close, since FN won BPVA over folklore. Perhaps if she put Joe on the submission/nominations, a few voters might have hesitated in giving AOTY to an actor with no previous song/album credits.

    There is a good change that those few lost votes would have cost her the AOTY win.

    Your comments on Jack and Aaron are ridiculous, you don’t know any of these people at all and you don’t know anything about how it was decided and what was discussed. They got paid to produce and unlike song-writing credits, it’s not a percentage, so no one gives up any share when another producer is added.

    Fraudulent grammy submissions are not a futile discussion.

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    #1204220502
    This post was found to be inappropriate by the moderators and has been removed.
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    Donnna
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    #1204220537

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>

    You’re wrong on every point. No one would think it would be o.k. to sneak Selena into a major award win, when the Grammys never wanted to nominate her before. As stated, if Taylor thought the voters would vote for Joe, I’m sure he’d have been there from the beginning. Are you suggesting she just forgot who worked on the album? Edit: It’s worth remembering that the voting was probably very close, since FN won BPVA over folklore. Perhaps if she put Joe on the submission/nominations, a few voters might have hesitated in giving AOTY to an actor with no previous song/album credits. There is a good change that those few lost votes would have cost her the AOTY win. Your comments on Jack and Aaron are ridiculous, you don’t know any of these people at all and you don’t know anything about how it was decided and what was discussed. They got paid to produce and unlike song-writing credits, it’s not a percentage, so no one gives up any share when another producer is added. Fraudulent grammy submissions are not a futile discussion.

    </p>
    The whole fn vs Folkore close votes argument is ridiculous…he was already credited on exile and she mentions him during her campaign. Voters voted for Folklore and Taylor Swift…not a single person would have been like ohh Joe alwyn is credited let me not vote for him. He is not Dr Luke or some infamous person.

    She did not forget.He clearly did not work on those songs and she added them just to make sure he gets the aoty. She did not want to go through the hassle of unnecessarily crediting him before for no reward…same reason why she has not credited him on Evermore. (I don’t agree with her playing with credits like that but if she thinks his contribution deserves a win it is on her and Folklores collaborators)

    Also I don’t know jack and Aaron , neither do you. All I know is they worked with her on Fearless rerecordings and have not voiced any complaints yet with who else was credited so it is not our fight.

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    hillslight
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    #1204220579

    I don’t think Joe being credited since the start would’ve changed the votes. They vote for the body of work, they don’t care about the people involved (look at Dr. Luke still getting nominated). And I don’t think the reason why he just got added recently is because she didn’t think voters would vote for an actor.

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    alex.g
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    #1204220612

    lmaoo what even Joe was already credited as a songwriter on exile and betty right from the moment folklore dropped. Exile was also nominated in BPDGP. Why in the world would voters care who else was credited on the album? AOTY is an award for a collaborative effort, if we go by your reasoning then we can never have first time grammy winning producers/writers/vocal arrangers because they have limited experience? Also, nobody, not even the voters can question the laws that are already in place. The law states a credit must be given even if the contribution is a presence in the same room or a single word. Just by this default, Joe Alwyn could have legally demanded credits. Voters would have absolutely not cared if swift had included Joe Alwyn or her entire family in the credits right from the get go. I mean seriously, so many artists make chill music with their friends and even fans, why should this mar the legitimacy of the music?

    You’ve been here long enough to know how it works.

    When Grammy voters are voting, the online form shows the nominated artists and nominated technical personal. They would not even see the name “Joe Alwyn” who was not credited for 33% of the playing time and they would not even consider the possibility that Taylor could gift her actor boyfriend an AOTY Grammy if she won.

    Then you say “first time grammy winning producers/writers/vocal arrangers” – are you really going to quote some producers with no previous production credits that won AOTY?

    I’m not sure how many years you’d have to go back to find an example. Perhaps never for a studio album.

    Then you claim “The law states a credit must be given even if the contribution is a presence in the same room” – what law, please quote the law. Crediting all the song-writers or producers in the room is often good practice (not law), because they came to the studio to work on the song/album and perhaps they might sue if the don’t get a credit.

    But you don’t need to credit family members and if you do need to credit them, because they actually did produce, you put those credits in the versions of the album you send out to your fans – because I’ve been told that Taylor would never lie to her fans.

    Would she?

    Dua was a real threat and Dua did end up winning BPVA (beating folklore) and the FN producer won the Producers award. Quite often the Producers award is a sure fire sign of an AOTY win. The AOTY voting must have been very close.

    Taylor is a very successful business woman and she knows how to play the game, just like any other successful business person like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk and it’s possible that they don’t always tell the truth either.

    Also I don’t know jack and Aaron , neither do you. All I know is they worked with her on Fearless rerecordings and have not voiced any complaints yet with who else was credited so it is not our fight.

    As mentioned several times, they are well paid and due to Taylor’s sales and streams, the money they get from song-writing credits in Taylor’s albums, is probably more than from all the other artists they work with put together. Of course they have “not voiced any complaints yet”.

    I don’t think Joe being credited since the start would’ve changed the votes. They vote for the body of work, they don’t care about the people involved (look at Dr. Luke still getting nominated). And I don’t think the reason why he just got added recently is because she didn’t think voters would vote for an actor.

    One reason that he just got added recently, could be that her actor boyfriend did very little production in the first place, and maybe Taylor realised that it might be the first and last chance she would be able to gift him a Grammy.

    Also, Dr. Luke didn’t win any Grammys and he was nominated as Tyson Trax.

    It will be interesting to see if Joe goes on to produce with other artists – who wouldn’t want to work with an AOTY winning producer?

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    Donnna
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    #1204220697

    I assure you voters weren’t gonna see Joe Alwyn and be like no let us not let this mf get a trophy, we are ok if he gets a certificate but a trophy is too much. If they liked Folklore and Taylor enough , they would vote for her.

    Also producer of the year is not a surefire way of finding who will win album if you bother to look at past years and even then Andrew produced only 1 song of Duas album.

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    Boz
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    #1204220714

    The law states a credit must be given even if the contribution is a presence in the same room or a single word.

    This is simply not true lol

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    Boz
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    #1204220724

    I don’t think anyone would’ve stoppes voting Folklore because Joe was there.

    My issue is that, if she gets away with this, how can we make sure other artists won’t do the same?

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    alex.g
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    #1204220806

    Taylor was very smart for not putting Joe’s name on the credits before the voting was over (assuming Joe did any production at all on the tracks he was eventually credited for).

    I’m sure there are a lot of hard working Grammy voters who respect musicians like Jack and Aaron who have paid their dues, but they wouldn’t want to use their vote to gift an AOTY to Taylor’s boyfriend who has no prior album or song credits.

    One thing we can say for sure;

    Either she was lying when she released the original album credits in 2020,
    Or, she was lying when she provided the updated credits in 2021.

    Either way it’s fraud and the Grammys shouldn’t just turn a blind eye to it, but they probably will. They got the big TV moment with Taylor’s 3xAOTY win and now it’s going to be every other female artist who will find greater scrutiny with their album credits when they have done nothing wrong.

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    Donnna
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    #1204220954

    I don’t think anyone would’ve stoppes voting Folklore because Joe was there. My issue is that, if she gets away with this, how can we make sure other artists won’t do the same?

    Yeah I agree. But the probable reason she is getting away is because she created it with ppl close to her and they don’t mind enough to complain. Many others don’t have that privelege because they are already working with a team who are fighting for credits.

    Grammys should set a deadline tho for submissions, ppl should not be allowed to add names to credits later. Also a limit on max number of ppl who will win the award like Oscars do so only ppl who contributed considerable amount win.

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    Donnna
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    #1204220969

    Once again , no one would have not voted if Joe was in the credits. If they like the album, they would not have been like ohh Joe Alwyn also contributed , let us not vote because Taylor’s boyfriend will get a trophy too. Jack and Aaron pulled some share of votes. It is not like Taylor removed Jack and Aaron from credits.. those who voted for Jack/Aaron weren’t gonna take away their vote because an additional producer got credited.

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