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Game of Thrones Final Season (Part 2)

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  • lacourseauxetoiles
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    #1202857303

    Tyrion rhymes with Tyranny and Tyrant for a reason.George RR Martin gives us some hints.He will betray Dany for sure.

    I think it’s more likely that Tyrion comes from the Norse god Tyr, much like Frey comes from the Norse god Frey.

    OK, we get it, you don’t like her. Do you feel that bitter every time she says those titles? Cuz that happens very often lol I don’t understand why people only conceive protagonists so humble and subservient, what a fucking clichéd narrative angle to take. Yes, Daenerys is arrogant, like most leaders in real life. Not everyone is a “saint” like Jon or a “demon” like Cersei; some people have power and make violent and destructive decisions with that power. How is that so difficult to get with a character like Daenerys? Should she be picking flowers and hiding behind a man who would probably make even worse choices than her? Give me a break.

    How am I saying that she should be “picking flowers and hiding behind a man”? I’m just saying that Daenerys is arrogant, entitled, merciless, and only ever makes good political decisions when her advisors stop her from doing stuff like crucifying people indiscriminately or burning prisoners alive. I’m not saying that she’s a bad character. I’m just saying that she’s a character who I will be happy to see die.

    People are forgetting that since season 4 the objective of the entire show has been pleasing the most fans it possibly can, which tells me both Jon and Daenerys will survive. I doubt they’ll risk anything else.

    I think this is an unfair assessment of the show. Season 4 was almost entirely based on the books, Season 5 was anything but crowdpleasing and was mostly based on the books, and while Season 6 was very crowdpleasing, that’s because the Starks had to win at some point. Season 7 was admittedly weak, but I don’t think it’s fair to say the same thing will happen in Season 8, especially since we will still probably get a similar ending to whatever Martin has planned.

    Not really. Remember that she was sold to Khal Drogo. She literally used her body to gain the title of Khaleesi. After Drogo’s death, she led her little khalasar as a woman when she should have been banished to join the dosh khaleen. She was their Khaleesi. She became the mother of dragons at the expense of her husband and baby. She became unburnt as a result of a leap of faith decision that risked her life. People think she had it easy, but she really gained many of her titles at some cost and thru grit. Jon Snow, on the other hand, never wanted anything but all his titles just fell on his lap.

    Unburnt was entirely unearned, as she had already shown with the dragon eggs in the fire earlier in the season that she didn’t burn.

    Khaleesi was also unearned, because the only time she was ever Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea before Season 6 was as Drogo’s wife, and she only earned that title because she was forcibly married to him. I’m not saying that she didn’t suffer in the process of getting that title. I’m saying that getting that title had nothing to do with choices she made.

    Mother of Dragons was earned, as were Queen of Meereen and Breaker of Chains. The rest all came to her due to things outside of her control, such as her father’s titles, the circumstances of her birth, magical powers that she was born with, and the person she was forced to marry.

    I agree about Jon though.

    wattsgold
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    #1202857356

    Today’s lesson: Some Daenerys haters are so obsessed with her that they would even rant illogically about her titles. Geez, Disney is also an option if complex characters, as in humans that are not perfect flawless heroes, characters are so ‘offensive’.

    gabarnes43
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    #1202857991

    Never Seen Game of Thrones, is it worth watching it. Also I’m in the UK so not sure how the best way to watch would be.

    vinny
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    Never Seen Game of Thrones, is it worth watching it

    SOOOO Worth it. Excellent show. HBO go?

    Atypical
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    Funny or Die’s “Gay of Thrones,” which is hilarious and insane:

    https://youtu.be/F1WGZMuChQ4

    mafro987
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    @lacourseauxetoiles @kvothe_snow

    I said ‘since season 4’ which obviously indicates I wasn’t referring to that season. The structure of season 5 was loosely based around the last two books but the actual plots and storylines themselves had almost no semblance to the actual plot of the books. That was probably a bad thing considering season 5 is largely known as the worst season other than 7.

    I predict that we will get a ‘similar’ ending to the books, but that the writing will force the ending without the necessary development (particularly in season 7) which will lead to the revelations feeling unearned.

    Of course this discussion has little meaning until we actually see the episodes ourselves.

    lacourseauxetoiles
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    Most of the book plots from AFFC and ADWD were weak too. Brienne wandered around the Riverlands looking for Sansa by just asking random people if they had seen her. Tyrion stumbled around Essos with no particular goal in mind. Dorne itself was handled better, but it also gave us Quentyn, a POV character who was actually pointless and a waste of time. Dany’s chapters were more grating in the books as well, and Davos getting 4 chapters to try to recruit the Manderlys before going to Skagos to find Rickon was underwhelming. And while Sansa’s plot almost certainly would have been better in the books, there’s no way to tell since GRRM only wrote 3 Sansa chapters over the course of 2 books and those were adapted in Season 4. Arya, Jaime, and Barristan had better material from the books that they didn’t use, but almost no one else did.

    DvirBA
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    I have to agree, if the show stuck to the books word for word season 5 and upwards i’m afraid it would have lost half it’s viewers and popularity by now.

    I’m not saying the fifth and fourth books are bad, I really enjoyed them but things don’t work the same in books as in television. They needed to keep the story coherent and keep the fan-base interested, and not just the 15% hard core followers.
    I disagree with some of the changes they made as well, but considering they know the ending, and the huge amount of details you have to alter just from omitting one storyline (if you want to reach the same goal), I believe it’s all for the best. D&D handled it masterfully, I don’t think most writers would have succeeded in that task.

    mafro987
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    Most of the book plots from AFFC and ADWD were weak too. Brienne wandered around the Riverlands looking for Sansa by just asking random people if they had seen her. Tyrion stumbled around Essos with no particular goal in mind. Dorne itself was handled better, but it also gave us Quentyn, a POV character who was actually pointless and a waste of time. Dany’s chapters were more grating in the books as well, and Davos getting 4 chapters to try to recruit the Manderlys before going to Skagos to find Rickon was underwhelming. And while Sansa’s plot almost certainly would have been better in the books, there’s no way to tell since GRRM only wrote 3 Sansa chapters over the course of 2 books and those were adapted in Season 4. Arya, Jaime, and Barristan had better material from the books that they didn’t use, but almost no one else did.

    This reads like an apology for bad adapting. Yes some of the last two books didn’t have material that could be adapted well to a 10 episode season while remaining engaging. That doesn’t excuse how bad the writing was.

    Half the problem would’ve been solved if they excluded Dorne altogether, which they did after they realised how atrociously they had adapted it (or rather, realised that not even casual viewers enjoyed it). They could have then used the spare time to creatively expand Sansa’s subplot without ruining her development as good writers could, took the Ironborn plot directly from the books and kept Stannis/Melisandre’s storyline, that season would definitely not be looked down on the way it is now.

    wattsgold
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    Funny or Die’s “Gay of Thrones,” which is hilarious and insane: https://youtu.be/F1WGZMuChQ4

    I’d love someone from the cast to make an appearance this season. We’ve had Theon and Ros plus George.

    Never Seen Game of Thrones, is it worth watching it. Also I’m in the UK so not sure how the best way to watch would be.

    It would be a miracle you hadn’t run into spoilers all these years. Avoid the internet at all costs. Enjoy.

    lacourseauxetoiles
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    This reads like an apology for bad adapting. Yes some of the last two books didn’t have material that could be adapted well to a 10 episode season while remaining engaging. That doesn’t excuse how bad the writing was. Half the problem would’ve been solved if they excluded Dorne altogether, which they did after they realised how atrociously they had adapted it (or rather, realised that not even casual viewers enjoyed it). They could have then used the spare time to creatively expand Sansa’s subplot without ruining her development as good writers could, took the Ironborn plot directly from the books and kept Stannis/Melisandre’s storyline, that season would definitely not be looked down on the way it is now.

    Fair enough. I personally think there was a way to do Dorne without adapting the book plot and without going the direction the show did. I personally would have had Barristan go to Dorne to recruit the Dornish as allies instead of dying. Myrcella would have seen this and would have sent a raven to King’s Landing to warn her family. Jaime and Bronn could have gone to rescue her, but right when they thought they had gotten away, a sand snake would have killed her (either with poison or from a distance). Then Season 6 could have had Barristan rallying the Dornish lords and preparing to march on King’s Landing while Jaime is forced to deal with the Faith Militant and Riverrun. And Season 7 could have had the Dornish and Tyrell forces prepare to lay siege to King’s Landing until the Tarlys and other lords of the Reach betray them and Jaime leads the Lannister forces to relieve the siege, which would be successful until Dany showed up with Drogon (similar to The Spoils of War). Trystane would die in the battle, but Doran would still be around. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes still could be captured/killed at sea like in the show.

    kvothe_snow
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    I don’t know how you can just exclude Dorne altogether.

    Lyanna was in Dorne when she gave birth to Jon.

    Rhaegar was married to a Dornish.

    Tyrion’s trial was associated with Oberyn.

    Also, 7 kingdoms without Dorne would only be 6.

    This reads like an apology for bad adapting. Yes some of the last two books didn’t have material that could be adapted well to a 10 episode season while remaining engaging. That doesn’t excuse how bad the writing was. Half the problem would’ve been solved if they excluded Dorne altogether, which they did after they realised how atrociously they had adapted it (or rather, realised that not even casual viewers enjoyed it). They could have then used the spare time to creatively expand Sansa’s subplot without ruining her development as good writers could, took the Ironborn plot directly from the books and kept Stannis/Melisandre’s storyline, that season would definitely not be looked down on the way it is now.

    Agree about expanding Sansa’s subplot in the Eyrie, although that would mean introducing fake Arya to marry Ramsay. Also, Sansa’s experience with Ramsay made us really hate Ramsay, which gave some urgency to the Battle of the Bastards. So while I love the Sansa-in-training plot in the books, I don’t know if it would make great TV.

    lacourseauxetoiles
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    I don’t know how you can just exclude Dorne altogether. Lyanna was in Dorne when she gave birth to Jon. Rhaegar was married to a Dornish. Tyrion’s trial was associated with Oberyn. Also, 7 kingdoms without Dorne would only be 6.

    They obviously weren’t saying exclude Dorne from the map. They were saying don’t include the Dorne storyline in Season 5.

    jjjmoss
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    #1202858187

    well the writing of the books is often bad, as is the writing of the show

    kvothe_snow
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    They obviously weren’t saying exclude Dorne from the map. They were saying don’t include the Dorne storyline in Season 5.

    So just pretend that the death of a prince of Dorne has ZERO consequence? Just pretend that Myrcella lived happily ever after?

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