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The Crown Season 4 (Part 2)

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    ENGLAND
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    #1203890175

    I am quite nervous about next season. If it is surrounding Diana’s death, it will be an emotional rollercoast.

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    forwardswill
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    #1203890219

    “48:1” – Thoroughly enjoyed this instalment. Really tightly written and the scene between Thatcher and Elizabeth lived up to the hype undoubtedly. Much like “Fagan”, it was still a bit slight and I did feel more could have been made of the actual emotional resonance of apartheid for The Queen rather than just approaching this as a matter of fact. But these are minor quibbles.
    Of those episodes I’ve seen so far, Anderson should submit this one. Granted I preferred her work in “The Balmoral Test” but this had a far superior arc for her and was arguably her first appearance where she was not brushed off the screen prematurely. I also appreciated Nicholas Farrell’s composed performance and given how barren Guest Actor normally is for me, he will probably end up making my personal line-up. Colman was also very good but I actually found that it was almost cruel to have Foy appear here. The reason for this is that it was an instantaneous reminder of the inferiority of Colman’s approach. This was a great shame because I did enjoy Colman here but every time she contorted her face excessively I was not even having to remember back to previous seasons as before but had the crystal clear memory of Foy in the opening moments of the episode saying so much with so little. Of course I am not saying Foy should be getting Emmy nominated or anything but I will dare to face stan accusations when I say that I thought what Foy did between finishing the speech, getting up and walking inside was more nuanced than Colman has ever been able to be in this role.

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    Carlo
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    #1203890908

    Also loved Fairytale, Fagan and The Hereditary Principle but Favourites is my pick for writing this year. Those scenes with the kids were pure gold.

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    Melvinezq
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    #1203890967

    Colman was also very good but I actually found that it was almost cruel to have Foy appear here. The reason for this is that it was an instantaneous reminder of the inferiority of Colman’s approach. This was a great shame because I did enjoy Colman here but every time she contorted her face excessively I was not even having to remember back to previous seasons as before but had the crystal clear memory of Foy in the opening moments of the episode saying so much with so little. 

    I quite disagree with this. I think that The Queen in real life is somehow closer to Colman’s approach than Foy’s. Perhaps it is because of how I often see her smiling and laughing. I also think that different stages of life urged it to be written very differently. I do love both performance though.

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    CateNicole
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    #1203891027

    I just watched Small Axe: Mangrove! Can someone explain to me what this series of movies is being entered in? Is it eligible for this upcoming season of Emmys, GG, SAG in the limited series/movie category? I’m feeling full sweep after this first movie, incredibly well-done and beautiful.

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    forwardswill
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    #1203891136

    I quite disagree with this. I think that The Queen in real life is somehow closer to Colman’s approach than Foy’s. Perhaps it is because of how I often see her smiling and laughing. I also think that different stages of life urged it to be written very differently. I do love both performance though.

    I don’t know which Queen you’ve been looking at because the one here in the UK is infamous for only expressing emotion basically once every few years. Guessing you’ve only been looking at pictures of her on Google?

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    ShinySeaDiamond
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    #1203891196

    For those critiquing the relative sympathy which with the show portrays Thatcher, I think we have to remember that the prime ministers in the show are to be understood in relation to the crown itself. Compared to the monarchy, a greengrocer’s daughter who got herself into Oxford, pursued careers in science and law and ultimately went into 10 Downing Street, maintained a no BS stance towards ‘patronising grey haired men’ in her Cabinet, while still being a devoted wife and mother (while she favoured Mark, she apparently denied Jonathan Aitken, a Conservative MP, a ministerial post because he had ‘made Carol cry’) held genuine ideological convictions (even if those convictions were rotten, you can’t say she wasn’t principled, unlike her conservative successors) and managed to cultivate an image of being the true reincarnation of Elizabeth I (with the Falklands being the 80s version of The Armada) more so than the queen herself will come off positively.

    As a counter example, Bob Hawke, who’s considered to be one of Australia’s greatest prime ministers, comes off unfavourably because he’s hostile to the idea of Australia still retaining the British monarchy, despite his domestic policy achievements his enduring popularity with Australians and his herculean achievement of bringing back the Australian Labor Party back into government. It also has to be said that while Hawke was a republican (in the Australian sense of the word) he was a lot more diplomatic about it than the show makes him out to be.

    Returning to Thatcher, her discipline, successful marriage and parenting of her son puts her in positive contrast to a family characterised by destructive marriages and fatally distant parenting. Also, perhaps if another actress was playing Thatcher maybe we’d have gotten a more authentic depiction but I don’t think Morgan would have wanted to make the character his girlfriend was playing to be a complete monster.

    I say this all as a fairly left wing person who supports Corbynite policies (but not Corbyn himself) in the UK and aligns themselves with. the Greens in Australia.

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    ShinySeaDiamond
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    #1203891213

    The possibility of neither Anderson or Corrin winning the Emmy whilst Meryl Streep and (potentially) Kristen Stewart are having Oscars for lesser portrayals of the same characters is a horrifying thought.

    Streep had the advantage of The Iron Lady coming out before The Crown. Stewart will have to deal with not only Corrin but also Debicki.

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    DrewN92
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    #1203893306

    Finally finished- just going to kind of word dump my general thoughts, but I kind of wish I would have commented by episode. Overall I think this is my favorite season so far, partially due to the more recent subject matter and the faster pacing. I think Olivia was much better this season and really settled into the role. It’s really unfortunate Bonham Carter didn’t win for season 3, but I have to say she really stole every scene she was in in season 4 and her performance in The Hereditary Principle was good enough for the win in my book, but I can concede that with Corrin and Anderson in the mix that ship has likely sailed. Personally Anderson would be my pick to win- I think she really settled into the role and it was such a convincing transformative performance I would love to see her industry rewarded again after all these years. Corrin was fantastic as well, and I have a feeling she has a much better shot at sweeping for this simply given how much screentime she had, playing such a beloved character, and giving a solid breakout performance. I wish Menzies had more to do, I really found him underutilized this season. I also think Doherty is fantastic and would love to see her in other roles. As for O’Connor I wouldn’t be surprised if he is snubbed again, especially given that his character is so unsympathetic this season, but I thought he was really amazing as well. It was also nice to see Foy, I just wish she would have had a little more to do.

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    forwardswill
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    #1203894815

    Watched the final two together.

    “Avalanche”: So so watchable yet again. It was, however, the first episode of the show that felt a bit too soap opera and it’s because it’s perhaps the first episode to not be treading new ground. Instead it’s essentially a continuation of “Terra Nullius”. Of course that means more sensational performances from Emma Corrin and, especially here, Josh O’Connor but it also kind of mars that which has always made The Crown interesting: it’s episodic storytelling. This is especially frustrating when the likes of Erin Doherty, who once again absolutely stole the show here, never get given their spotlight episode. I understand that Charles and Diana was the big story of the decade but it comes to a point when it’s a bit like we get it they hate each other time to move on.

    “War”: Loved this. A great directorial achievement from Jessica Hobbs and a fantastic showcase for the ensemble. Morgan’s juggling of the two major storylines was nicely interwoven – a stark contrast to “Gold Stick” and “The Balmoral Test” – and it had all the bombast I love from a finale. Scene after scene was a knockout: The Queen and Thatcher, Charles and Diana, The Queen and Charles, and, best of all, Phillip and Diana. As with the season as a whole, Emma Corrin was the marginal MVP. Both Anderson and Colman still never quite blew me away but both still went out without embarrassing themselves by any stretch.

    To comment on the season as a whole, I think overall I would rank as 2 > 1 > 4 = 3. This season was in many ways much more consistent than the last but also it only had one truly standout episode (“Fairytale”). I think it is telling that, unlike when I completed season two, I am excited for the new cast that’s coming. My last thoughts go to Helena Bonham Carter and, once again, to Erin Doherty. Neither got to bow out as they deserved but both annihilated every scene partner they were faced with this season.

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    Ivo Stoyanov
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    #1203894881

    I finished season 4 two weeks days ago and I definitely prefer season 2, but season 4 was amazing nevertheless. Very entertaining, very well written, beautifully done. Compelling and thoughtful. The best episodes would be Fairytale, Terra Nullius, 48:1 and War. I personally also loved Favourites and Fagan. The Hereditary Principle was good, but felt very cut out from all the storylines that felt more focused tide-up this year. Avalanche felt repetitive.

    My main issues was with Gold Stick and The Balmoral Test, they had very good moments (especially the humor in the second one), but were very hard to watch and even disgusting for me due to the hunting and phishing scenes, I am a vegetarian (for more than 16 years) and advocate for animal rights, but even if we dismiss that, I feel that those sense are pointless and repetitive at this point, we already know how important hunting and phishing is for the royal family, part of their stupid traditions, etc. The story from season 2 was already told by Peter Morgan itself in his movie The Queen, he literally plagiarizes himself, the story was identical, stupid tourists injured an animal without killing them cause enter the premises of the royals, they were appalled by this act, then the Queen saw herself in the animal (here Charles saw himself), but in both cases, Morgan thought that this is Dianna… I think we got it by now…

    The other reason that this season does not live up to the second has been said already perfectly by Riley and is the fact that Foy’s acting was unmatched, she will remains the diamond in the crown (pun intended) of this show. Followed pretty close by Vanessa Kirby.

    Emma Corrin was the undeniable MVP, followed by Josh O’Conner. I expected more of Gillian Anderson, her imitation was impecable and she was superior than Streep, but it did not achieved what Corrin achieved for me – it was like seeing the real Diana. Colman was much better than last season, especially in Favourites, 48:1 and War. The rest did not have enough to do, however, Erin Doherty and Emerald Fennel were stand outs for me. I hope this will be only the beginning for Erin Doherty’s career. Charles Dance do not deserve a nomination (I know that is unpopular opinion, but he did not deserved one last year for me as well and I predicted his snub). Nicholas Farrell and Tom Brooke deserve those nominations!

    And last, Forwardswill, I love reading your thoughts about this show, they are always great and deep, the arguments are solid and details you mention exquisit.

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    wolfali
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    #1203894894

    “Avalanche”: So so watchable yet again. It was, however, the first episode of the show that felt a bit too soap opera and it’s because it’s perhaps the first episode to not be treading new ground. Instead it’s essentially a continuation of “Terra Nullius”. Of

    Yeah this is how I felt.

    Another user mentioned this but I also personally find <i>The Crown </i>to be at its most intriguing when its focused on the political and societal changes of the time and when its character focused (i.e. Fagan and Beryl are two of my favourite episodes of the show ever). The melodrama in this one and Terra Nullius were too much for me (although Corrin and O’Connor were spectacular).

    Emma Corrin was the undeniable MVP, followed by Josh O’Conner. I expected more of Gillian Anderson, her imitation was impecable and she was superior than Streep, but it did not achieved what Corrin achieved for me – it was like seeing the real Diana.

    I felt the same way with Corrin as with Anderson (it felt like I was seeing the real Thatcher too) but Corrin is my marginal favourite.

    Nicholas Farrell and Tom Brooke deserve those nominations!

    Yep! Hopefully Farrell gets submitted (I’m sure Brooke will)!

    . I hope this will be only the beginning for Erin Doherty’s career.

    She’s got a new Hollywood movie coming up!

    It’s interesting watching Doherty in interviews. She’s almost like Claire Foy in the sense that she’s almost unrecognisable when she’s out of character.

    I hope she gets nominated.

    FYC OSCARS : PROMISING YOUNG WOMAN IN ALL CATEGORIES (ESP. ACTRESS – Carey Mulligan AND ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY — EMERALD FENNELL), VANESSA KIRBY FOR "PIECES OF A WOMAN", ESSIE DAVIS FOR "BABYTEETH"

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    forwardswill
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    #1203894938

    And last, Forwardswill, I love reading your thoughts about this show, they are always great and deep, the arguments are solid and details you mention exquisit.

    Thank you so much Ivo that’s really kind of you.

    I also personally find The Crown to be at its most intriguing when its focused on the political and societal changes of the time and when its character focused

    I really strongly agree. And actually “Fagan” is the one episode of the season I really want to go back and watch because I think I might have been too harsh on it. It’s the only one this season that truly captured that political resonance that the show has done so well before and reminded me vaguely of my favourite episode of the show, “Marionettes”, due to its focus on the queen engaging with the politics of real people.

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    wolfali
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    #1203894955

    And actually “Fagan” is the one episode of the season I really want to go back and watch because I think I might have been too harsh on it. It’s the only one this season that truly captured that political resonance that the show has done so well before and reminded me vaguely of my favourite episode of the show, “Marionettes”, due to its focus on the queen engaging with the politics of real people.

    I agree with this. I find the Queen’s encounters with the “real world” to be some of the most thought provoking elements of the show. For example I quite enjoyed the Queen’s character study in Dear Mrs. Kennedy for that exact reason.

    In a way I’m looking forward to season 6 more than 5 because I am expecting there will be more focuses on the Queen being out of touch with the real world due to the aftermath of Diana’s death and the rapid societal changes during Blair’s premiership.

    Intrigued as to who they cast as Blair. I hope it’s David Tennant but I’m not exactly the casting director for the show.

    FYC OSCARS : PROMISING YOUNG WOMAN IN ALL CATEGORIES (ESP. ACTRESS – Carey Mulligan AND ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY — EMERALD FENNELL), VANESSA KIRBY FOR "PIECES OF A WOMAN", ESSIE DAVIS FOR "BABYTEETH"

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    Melvinezq
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    #1203895448

    I agree with this. I find the Queen’s encounters with the “real world” to be some of the most thought provoking elements of the show. For example I quite enjoyed the Queen’s character study in Dear Mrs. Kennedy for that exact reason. In a way I’m looking forward to season 6 more than 5 because I am expecting there will be more focuses on the Queen being out of touch with the real world due to the aftermath of Diana’s death and the rapid societal changes during Blair’s premiership. Intrigued as to who they cast as Blair. I hope it’s David Tennant but I’m not exactly the casting director for the show.

    We all know that Season 5 will be the most soap opera-ish (and Diana-centred) and Season 6 will most certainly be political. I wonder what Season 5’s last scene is. I think if they make it Diana’s car accident/chasing, it’s going to be not just lit but set up a real introduction to how consequential Season 6 is.

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