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2023 Emmy Predictions: Drama Categories

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  • estrelas
    Joined:
    Jul 25th, 2018
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    #1205103898

    replace male with white and looks like you could get your dream come true. go you.

    Sweety, your fav is based on a novel by a bigot with a white scientologist in the lead role. You tried it tho.


    Victor
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    Jun 18th, 2020
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    #1205103903

    Both The Crown and Succession are based on families that already exist (The Crown more of a certainty and Succession more of a parody of the Murdochs), them being white is both accurate and relevant to the storyline since the story is about white rich families and their blindness to middle to low classes of people.

    Also, THT it’s not a example of a diversity show, if we’re playing the blame game, we have Moira and Luke and they both basically exist to serve June since season 1, that’s not a good look.

    Emmy winner Matthew Macfadyen!!


    forwardswill
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    Apr 9th, 2013
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    #1205103909

    I think the better diversity argument with The Crown/Succession actually starts at their inception. In the era we are in now and with streaming platforms ready and raring to make anything, why are creators still looking at telling stories about solely white people? After all, even if they do it to a very high standard, it’s not like either show is breaking any ground with the material it chooses to cover and the kind of characters involved. I say this as a big fan of The Crown but being a fan of something shouldn’t mean being inobservant of its obvious flaws.


    Victor
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    #1205103916

    I think the better diversity argument with The Crown/Succession actually starts at their inception. In the era we are in now and with streaming platforms ready and raring to make anything, why are creators still looking at telling stories about solely white people? After all, even if they do it to a very high standard, it’s not like either show is breaking any ground with the material it chooses to cover and the kind of characters involved. I say this as a big fan of The Crown but being a fan of something shouldn’t mean being inobservant of its obvious flaws.

    That’s a point we can all agree on.

    Emmy winner Matthew Macfadyen!!


    kat_ebbs
    Joined:
    Jun 10th, 2021
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    #1205103933

    I think the better diversity argument with The Crown/Succession actually starts at their inception. In the era we are in now and with streaming platforms ready and raring to make anything, why are creators still looking at telling stories about solely white people? After all, even if they do it to a very high standard, it’s not like either show is breaking any ground with the material it chooses to cover and the kind of characters involved. I say this as a big fan of The Crown but being a fan of something shouldn’t mean being inobservant of its obvious flaws.

    I agree wholeheartedly with this. It’s like last years spate of limited series – almost exclusively commissioned to feature white female leads to the extent that the majority of the prediction centre was white (and it was, by my estimation anyway, one of the most boring limited years we’ve had in ages).


    wolfali
    Joined:
    Sep 4th, 2018
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    #1205103986

    The Crown and Succession have big diversity problems (the former of which in particular with the representation in its behind the camera team and the latter in its on screen representation and remit) which is something that I strenuously agree with even as someone who likes both and is a queer person of colour.  But I think the problem I always have with the argument is the implication that these two shows are the only ones that have diversity issues. Just this past awards season only 5 of the 21 series nominees had poc leads. One of them was a fantasy show about vampires, one of them was a Korean drama and one of them was a teen drama that is written and directed solely by a 30 something heterosexual cisgender white man. Abbott Elementary is the only show that won above the line Emmys last year that had a diverse on screen and behind the camera cast and crew. Shows like Atlanta, Insecure and Station Eleven didn’t even get series nominations over shows that focused almost solely on privileged white people.

    The commissioning argument is one that is almost always missing from the discussions and I just want to thank forwardswill for bringing into the discussion. But I think it goes beyond that. Not to excuse them in any form but at least with both of those shows they’re set in a world around the elite (with one of them being under the form of a period piece). What excuse do contemporary set shows like Ted Lasso, Mare of Easttown, Ozark and hell even Hacks (although it does have better representation than most of its peers) have for their world views being predominantly white, most of their main cast being white and their poc characters cast members largely either being stereotypes or stock characters? Why should Sam Levinson be telling a story about young queer, trans and poc people without the input of those people themselves? What excuse do Killing Eve and Luther (both of which were lauded when they debuted for their landmark on screen representation) have for their all white production teams? What excuse does The Handmaid’s Tale have for not exploring the racism often experienced by poc refugees and the violence faced by people of colour in Gilead-esque nations? Why can’t characters like Kim Wexler, Rebecca Welton, Irving Bailiff or Rachel Patton be people of colour? None of these are slights against any of these shows or me trying to bring one show down to bring another up or saying that any of the actors who were eventually cast in those roles were miscast (Hannah Waddingham as Rebecca Welton and Rhea Seehorn as Kim Wexler are two of my favourite casting decisions in recent years!) But at the same time why is it that the stories of people of colour can’t be told in these settings? There are certainly working class people of colour in Pennsylvania, poc creatives living in Los Angeles and London is arguably the most multi-cultural city on the planet.

    There’s a whole multitude of issues at play here and if I got into every single one of them I’d be here all day but whilst I think that both Succession and The Crown have diversity issues I feel like what we often don’t look at here is how systemic this issue is. Whether through the types of shows commissioned (most of which are by middle aged white men) as forwardswill has pointed out, how these shows are cast, how certain shows are marketed and how we as consumers consume shows (which is something that has drastically changed over the past decade due to streaming). I don’t speak for all people of colour in the creative industries but personally as a poc creative I find shows centred around privileged white families too be just as bad as shows that have on screen representation but don’t have any in their writersrooms and shows that have poc characters but sideline them or use them as a vehicles to develop their white leads to be just as bad as each other. Regardless of whether I otherwise absolutely like or dislike the show itself.

    FYC: Better Call Saul and The Good Fight in all categories including Bob Odenkirk, Christine Baranski and Rhea Seehorn.


    Couverture
    Joined:
    Jun 16th, 2019
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    #1205104091

    Also, THT it’s not a example of a diversity show, if we’re playing the blame game, we have Moira and Luke and they both basically exist to serve June since season 1, that’s not a good look.

    The appropriation, weaponisation and erasure of BIPOC trauma to build and serve a predominantly white story is probably more emblematic of the issues this show and its source material have. Their unwillingness (or inability?) to deal with this will always be shortsighted and many of the choices simply misguided, to put it mildly. Whether it be its ignorant Islamophobic view of hijabs or the foolish positioning of Canada as a morally superior racial haven. A story that presents itself as universal, yet whose basis is deeply rooted in painting oppression in white face, as someone put it succinctly once.

    But this isn’t going to be an honest conversation. Unlike something like Mad Men, The Crown and Succession don’t have Elisabeth Moss to escape this self serving outrage and concern. A shame because as seen above, these forums are perfectly capable of having an intelligent conversation about these issues.

    A Negroni. Sbagliato. With Prosecco in it.


    kat_ebbs
    Joined:
    Jun 10th, 2021
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    #1205104109

    s and shows that have poc characters but sideline them

    *sideyes HoTD with Steve Toussaint.

     


    Onion
    Joined:
    Aug 1st, 2015
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    #1205104187

    I think the better diversity argument with The Crown/Succession actually starts at their inception. In the era we are in now and with streaming platforms ready and raring to make anything, why are creators still looking at telling stories about solely white people? After all, even if they do it to a very high standard, it’s not like either show is breaking any ground with the material it chooses to cover and the kind of characters involved. I say this as a big fan of The Crown but being a fan of something shouldn’t mean being inobservant of its obvious flaws.

    Thank you so much for this. No one is wrong for wanting representation and also no one is wrong for liking both shows. This debate has been going on for ages around here because some people don’t understand that both can be true.

    I feel like this has become a trend in which if you don’t enjoy a show you just go and start calling everyone racists and the fans of the show start defending themselves saying the shows don’t need representation and things get extremely weird and unpleasant for everyone.


    alittle03
    Joined:
    Sep 16th, 2020
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    #1205104236

    Absolutely loving this conversation the last two pages. Incredibly insightful and eye-opening.

    • FYC: Everything Everywhere All at Once in any and every single category, especially Best Picture, Michelle Yeoh in Actress, Stephanie Hsu in Supporting Actress, The Daniels in Director/Screenplay, Paul Rogers in Editing, and Son Lux in Score.


    Reis
    Joined:
    Jun 17th, 2014
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    #1205104242

    Already obsessed with “Interview with the Vampire”. We will make this happen guys


    samy.chrr
    Joined:
    Dec 26th, 2020
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    #1205104293

    Industry is the best show on tv and it being overlooked is criminal

    I hope Myha’la Herrold happens at Critics’ Choice or BAFTA, but I don’t put too much faith in the former…


    samy.chrr
    Joined:
    Dec 26th, 2020
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    #1205104297

    Already obsessed with “Interview with the Vampire”. We will make this happen guys

    I mean if Showtime managed to get ATL noms for Yellowjackets, AMC can do the same for Interview with the Vampire, but it needs audiences and critics backing it to sustain the buzz ’til next July.


    wolfali
    Joined:
    Sep 4th, 2018
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    #1205104441

    Did this a little bit on the creative arts thread but here’s what would be my personal choices in each category from what I’ve seen so far in this field.

    Drama Series*

    Better Call Saul
    The Boys
    For All Mankind
    Industry

    Drama Actress

    – Christine Baranski, The Good Fight
    – Morfydd Clark, The Lord of the Rings : The Rings of Power
    – Myha’la Herrold, Industry
    – Elisabeth Moss, The Handmaid’s Tale
    – Shantel VanSanten, For All Mankind

    Drama Actor

    – Jacob Anderson, Interview with the Vampire
    – Joel Kinnaman, For All Mankind
    – Bob Odenkirk, Better Call Saul
    – Sam Reid, Interview with the Vampire
    – Antony Starr, The Boys
    – Karl Urban, The Boys

    Drama S. Actress

    – Marisa Abela, Industry
    – Milly Alcock, House of the Dragon
    – Jodi Balfour, For All Mankind
    – Olivia Cooke, House of the Dragon
    – Audra McDonald, The Good Fight
    – Wrenn Schmidt, For All Mankind
    – Rhea Seehorn, Better Call Saul
    – Yvonne Strahovski, The Handmaid’s Tale

    Drama S. Actor

    – Laz Alonso, The Boys
    – Jonathan Banks, Better Call Saul
    – Andre Braugher, The Good Fight
    – Paddy Considine, House of the Dragon
    – Casey W. Johnson, For All Mankind
    – Ken Leung, Industry
    – John Slattery, The Good Fight
    – Matt Smith, House of the Dragon

    Drama Writing

    – Ann Cherkis for Better Call Saul (“Fun and Games”)
    – Gordon Smith for Better Call Saul (“Point and Shoot”)
    – Peter Gould for Better Call Saul (“Saul Gone”)
    – Ben Nedivi and Matt Wolpert for For All Mankind (“Stranger in a Strange Land”)
    – Davita Scarlett for The Good Fight (“The End of Eli Gold”)
    – Matthew Berry for Industry (“The Fool” )
    – Mickey Down and Konrad Kay for Industry (“Jerusalem”)

    Drama Directing

    – Vince Gilligan for Better Call Saul (“Point and Shoot”)
    – Peter Gould for Better Call Saul (“Saul Gone”)
    – Nelson McCormick for The Good Fight (“The Beginning of the End”)
    – Miguel Sapochnik for House of the Dragon (“The Princess and the Queen”)
    – Alan Taylor for Interview with the Vampire (“In Throes of Increasing Wonder…”)
    – James Whitmore-Jr. for The Good Fight (“The End of Eli Gold”)
    – Craig Zisk for For All Mankind (“Stranger in a Strange Land”)

    Drama Guest Actor

    – Alan Cumming, The Good Fight
    – Tony Dalton, Better Call Saul
    – Giancarlo Esposito, Better Call Saul
    – Michael McKean, Better Call Saul
    – Wallace Shawn, The Good Fight

    Drama Guest Actress

    – Betsy Brandt, Better Call Saul
    – Meghan Leathers, For All Mankind
    – Sonya Walger, For All Mankind

    * = The Good Fight, The Handmaid’s Tale, House of the Dragon and Interview with the Vampire‘s exclusions here aren’t because I necessarily think they don’t deserve drama series nominations by any means but rather because I don’t determine whether a show deserves to be nominated for drama series in any personal awards or alternate personal “picks” I do for an awards body until I have seen all of its season (like I have with the four shows in my “personal” drama series category).

    FYC: Better Call Saul and The Good Fight in all categories including Bob Odenkirk, Christine Baranski and Rhea Seehorn.


    Ryan
    Joined:
    Oct 12th, 2016
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    #1205104570

    Do we know where Bad Sisters is being submitted? Drama or Comedy?

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