Forum Replies Created
October 20, 2019 at 12:58 am #1203144365
I wonder what do Pitchfork and its users have anything against Adele? Two massive-selling AOTY-winning albums of Adele are nowhere to be found in their users’ top 50 albums, nor any of her songs. In fact, no AOTY winner appears in the users’ list except for The Suburbs (#9) which is understandable and 1989.
Pitchfork (and their users) is not a sales chart and it is not the Grammys. They are not obligated to pick the same albums.
However, this is the Top 10 of the pitchfork users poll.
1. Kanye West: My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
2. Kendrick Lamar: To Pimp a Butterfly
3. Frank Ocean: Blonde
4. Kendrick Lamar: good kid, m.A.A.d city
5. Frank Ocean: Channel Orange
6. Kanye West: Yeezus
7. Vampire Weekend: Modern Vampires of the City
8. Sufjan Stevens: Carrie & Lowell
9. Arcade Fire: The Suburbs
10. Lorde: Melodrama
Many of these albums (or the songs from these albums) are either Grammy winners in their own genre or they are AOTY nominees.
The AOTY winners have to appeal to a wide range of people, so the winners tend to be the safe choices with broad appeal. Music critics and Pitchfork readers don’t have to care about getting votes from people working in the American roots, Country music or Christian music categories.
There will soon be a lot more critics lists for the 2010s decade, with perhaps most of them coming late November or later. I’m sure some of them will put 21 in their Top 10 albums.October 18, 2019 at 12:21 am #1203142151
Lover is an “album” album at 18 tracks when other pop girls can barely maintain the structure of a 10-ish track record, that alone deserves some credit
There is no point in having 18 tracks, if many of those tracks are filler or just plain bad (unless you only care about streaming points so you can have a big opening week and chart higher on the BB200). Listening to that album was a chore and it didn’t need to be. Taylor could have spent the time crafting an excellent 10-12 track album, but didn’t.
Not hating Taylor here, I’d say the same for Drake and others. However there were enough good tracks on Lover to say it doesn’t belong in the worst category.
When I read this thread title, the first album I thought of was this one.
Perhaps it should have been that Chainsmokers album.October 8, 2019 at 11:42 pm #1203128759
Anti is finally being understood as a masterpiece . Finally.
Looking at some of those lists and comparing with Grammy wins is interesting.
ANTi is Top 10 on UPROXX and #12 on Pitchfork. Melodrama is #6 on UPROXX (best from 2017) and #14 on Pitchfork (also best from 2017). Kendrick Lamar with good kid m.A.A.d city being #1 on UPROXX and also Top 20 on Pitchfork (which is great when you consider he has 2 albums with higher scores on Metacritic). No Grammy wins for any of those albums.
In some respects I think they are posting these lists too early.
Didn’t Nick Cave just release a very highly acclaimed album? The review score might drop back a bit after we get another 10-15 reviews, but it’s reasonable to think it might get a place in a list of 200 albums. Same goes for Angel Olsen.September 30, 2019 at 1:43 am #1203113223
Having a multi-week #1 during the first-round voting is a pretty good campaign for Lizzo. Perhaps that is enough to secure her nominations and she can promote more during the final round of voting coming up.September 27, 2019 at 8:11 pm #1203109426
The Grammys don’t “do” it. It happens when there are ties.
Perhaps we need a maths expert to calculate the probability of ties.
I’m not aware of how this can be done with multiple voting choices, but are some formulas and tables available for when there are two candidates.
Some examples where n is the number of voters and p is the probability of a tie
n = 2, p = 0.5
n = 16, p = 0.19638
n = 64, p = 0.09934675
n = 100, p = 0.079589237
n = 1,000, p = 0.025225018
Imagine that the majority of the votes go to the 4 biggest selling pop songs/albums and there are 64 votes distributed between options 5 and 6.
How often will there be a tie?
It appears that we would see a tie about once every 10 years.
What if there were only 16 voters who are voting for options 5 and 6, we might expect a tie every 5 years.
But can there really be only 16 people voting (8 votes for each song/album) for the last two spots in the pop field?
There are a lot of pop albums with that many song writers on one song. When there is a group they can just vote for themselves and that is almost enough.
Then add producers, recording engineers, mixing engineers and others.
Perhaps it also needs mentioning that you can never have a tie when there is an odd number of voters.
Unless there are extremely low number of voters for some of the albums that get nominated, we should not expect to see 6 Best Pop Vocal Album nominees in 2015, 2018 and 2019, at least not due to ties.
I’m sure that these low numbers of voters and genuine ties can happen from time in the less popular music genres, but 3 times in the last 5 years in Best Pop Vocal Album?
I’m quite happy for a real maths expert to provide a model that explains why these “ties” seem to be so common in recent years.September 27, 2019 at 5:12 am #1203107389
there was no rule benting for lizzo. it’s just that current rule is messy.
Of course there was rule bending.
Cuz I Love You (Deluxe) – 14 tracks
Big GRRRL Small World – 12 tracks
Lizzobangers – 14 tracks
Coconut Oil EP – 6 tracks
That’s just from a quick scroll down her Spotify and not even looking at collabs and other random songs. No big deal as they seem to change the interpretation every year depending on who they want on the show, so why should this year be any different.September 26, 2019 at 11:49 pm #1203107222
It looks like they bent the rules for Lizzo. Most likely it will come down to a competition between Billie Eilish and Lizzo, with perhaps a late challenge from Lewis Capaldi, depending on how well “Someone You Loved” does over the next few weeks.
Getting a second Top 10 will help Lil Nas X a lot (no longer a one hit wonder) and should help secure a nomination. Maggie Rogers might be one of my favourites, but I don’t really know how well regarded she is by Grammy voters.September 26, 2019 at 11:11 pm #1203107188
and the voters can only vote for general field and up to 15 other categories related to their expertise. And he said the submission we’ve seen so far is not like what we think.
That is the way it is meant to work, but no one limits themselves to voting in their area of expertise and no one polices it.
This was written by an insider on one of the screening committees:
Members are supposed to vote only in their fields of expertise—and in a maximum of 9 out of the 31 fields on the ballot. In addition, everyone gets to vote for Record of the Year, Album of the Year, Song of the Year, and Best New Artist. A few categories are reserved for special nominating committees, but frankly—not enough. I weighed in on the nominees for best pop album, even though I don’t pay as much attention to pop music as other genres. Hey, I told myself, pop is for people who don’t pay much attention anyway. In the final voting process, members are allowed to vote in even more categories —up to 20, plus the 4 general categories. Bottom line: the vast majority of the nominations are chosen by people who have little real expertise in a given field. I refrained from voting in heavy metal and classical because I know very little about those genres. But I could have if I wanted to, and that strikes me as a problem.
He goes on to predict (this appears to be before the final results were known in 2014) that Macklemore and Ryan Lewis would win a Grammy for Best Rap Album.September 19, 2019 at 2:51 am #1203086143
They lost to songs that aren’t nominated in SoTY. I’m pretty sure you got what I mean.
If I remember rightly, in the year when “We are Young” won SoTY, “Somebody That I Used to Know” was not eligible for SoTY under the rules of the day, because it contained an instrumental sample.
So “We are Young” is not a good example of pop songs winning SoTY without winning in pop.September 17, 2019 at 10:33 pm #1203083612
What about Fontaines D.C. – “Dogrel” in the rock categories?
The most acclaimed album of the year so far according to albumoftheyear.org
But maybe no chance for a Post-Punk album like this one at the Grammys?September 17, 2019 at 4:54 am #1203081864
You people are children. Ugh.
This really became a stan thread lol
This place has been invaded by people from pop forums/stan twitter and we just get endless gaga vs. ariana and billie vs. taylor stan wars and very little rational discussion.
Overall, no one is frontrunner for AOTY. Everyone has disadvantage at this point :
ASIB – soundtrack has bad record for the past 15 years, hype is fading
Billie – whispering pop may not clicking to the voters
Ariana – hype is fading, recent feud with Grammy
Lizzo – competition with Tyler may split the voters, NARAS hate hip-hop in general
Tyler – same reason as Lizzo
Taylor – frontloaded and lack of smash hits, too soon to award AOTY for the third time
Lana – poor Grammy record, NARAS probably dislike her music
Bruce – lack of commercial success, too veteran
Beyonce – flop, Homecoming serves no new material
Imagine you are a member of the nominations committee and these albums appear in the final 20. Which one would generate the most backlash if the album was voted as the final winner?
I’m thinking Taylor would generate the most backlash.
Imagine if she won three AOTY wins in a decade, and in many respects ‘Lover’ is considered a sub-par album.
Stevie Wonder’s third AOTY win was ‘Songs in the Key of Life’ and Paul Simon’s third win was with ‘Graceland’. I don’t think that even the Swifties think that ‘Lover’ is at the same level as those albums.
I think ‘Lover’ is the most likely of these to miss out on getting the nomination.September 13, 2019 at 3:32 am #1203072515
People are foolish to believe the highest metacritic score will not be named AOTY. And by biggest name.
The weighting system used on Metacritic gives some strange results at times, especially where there are a small number of reviews.
Quite often albumoftheryear.org gives a more realistic result:
This is still a great score, but I suspect that the Grammys might decide that they already gave nominations and awards to those same songs and the albums they came from.September 8, 2019 at 9:48 pm #1203064694
Confirmed artists releasing during this eligibility period:
Brittany Howard – Jaime (September 20)
– she is a previous Grammy winner and AOTY nominee as part of Alabama ShakesSeptember 8, 2019 at 7:14 pm #1203064523
I know this is only for 2021, but what did you think of the K-12???
Belongs in this thread:
https://www.goldderby.com/forum/music/2021-grammy-award-predictions/September 8, 2019 at 4:49 am #1203063093
soty is all about lyrics.
Lyrics are important in country music and pop, but not everyone voting in the general field is from a country/pop background. People from Jazz, Classical and Progressive Rock backgrounds might have quite different priorities.
Perhaps she was unlucky to miss out with “Blank Space” which was probably better than any song by Ed Sheeran with his Hallmark greeting-card cliché lyrics.