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April 12, 2021 at 3:50 pm #1204196725
The biggest shocker was I KNEW YOU WERE TROUBLE which should have been nominated for SOTY and ROTY and won both. How the hell it missed even after RED getting in AOTY?
Nomination maybe, win no. “I Knew You Were Trouble” would have been up against “Royals” and “Get Lucky” in SOTY and ROTY and those songs deserved their wins.
The correct answer is “Blank Space” should have won over “Thinking Out Loud” in BPSP in the 2016 awards.
Ed Sheeran didn’t deserve SOTY either, but I’m not going to suggest that Taylor deserved to beat Kendrick in both SOTY and AOTY.
ReplyApril 10, 2021 at 7:08 pm #1204191239overdue narrative has worked for several artists in the past years. if bjork comes with an impressive album, she could take alternative
I’m not sure how the overdue narrative works in alternative, but in AOTY the pattern appears to be pretty clear:
1998 – Bob Dylan (his first solo AOTY win) beats Radiohead (OK Computer)
2000 – Santana wins with Supernatural (not sure who was the “should have won” nominee)
2001 – Steely Dan beats Radiohead (Kid A), Eminem, Beck and Paul Simon
2005 – Ray Charles (posthumous win)
2008 – Herbie Hancock beats Amy Winehouse, Kayne, Foo Fighters and Vince Gill
2009 – Robert Plant (ex Led Zeppelin) and Alison Krauss beats Radiohead (In Rainbows) and others
2014 – Daft Punk (with what turns out to be their final album) beats Kendrick Lamar and others
2015 – Beck beats Beyoncé and othersPerhaps the overdue narrative only works for male artists, because I don’t see too many overdue female wins. Perhaps it also helps to be American, although Robert Plant and Daft Punk aren’t from the US, so some foreign artists have a chance, but it didn’t help Bowie’s last album.
The problem for artists like Björk is that your music is always being compared against the music on your best album(s) and if you can’t win with your best album, you might never win.
April 6, 2021 at 3:07 am #1204181269There is usually an “acclaimed album” nominee in AOTY, often one of the most acclaimed albums of year, usually from someone with at least reasonable sales and name recognition.
For the moment I’ve got Daddy’s Home in that acclaimed album slot, although we don’t know how well the album will be received by critics and there is still a long way to go before the end of the eligibility period. The voters in the alternative album and rock categories seem to like Annie enough to give her a win in each of her last two eras.
April 6, 2021 at 12:41 am #1204181201This thread needs to be closed. Is it too soon to start a “Grammys 2022: Alternative + Rock nominations” thread?
ReplyApril 5, 2021 at 5:42 am #1204178968A Silk Sonic sweep seems really likely if the BRP doesn’t intervene… yawn
Why would they intervene? The Grammys (organisation) would be very happy to end the accusation that racism is blocking a black AOTY winner (since 2008) and the Grammys (voters) appear to love Bruno.
A Silk Sonic sweep gives Bruno and Anderson.Paak an AOTY and keeps everyone happy, except for the people who will complain that the Grammys represents the musical tastes of an older generation and doesn’t represent the current generation of musicians or music consumers.
Maybe they will block Silk Sonic from record or song to prevent a sweep, but perhaps they aren’t too worried.
April 4, 2021 at 8:50 pm #1204177968How important/respected are the BRIT awards?
I’m not British or American and I’d say the BRITs are second only to the Grammys. Perhaps there are other awards shows that are bigger, but Billboard awards are just a sales contest and I don’t know anyone that cares much about the AMAs, or remembers any of the winners.
ReplyApril 2, 2021 at 7:56 pm #1204172802Nothing really changes. People got angry when they realised that Billie was competing for chart positions and Grammys. Back in 2013 they got angry with Lorde and even created some sort of birther/age-truther conspiracy theory, claiming that she was faking her age and was really 45 or something.
ReplyApril 2, 2021 at 6:40 pm #1204172761Chromatica and Lover both had 79’s, the reviews are good but not stellar at all.
I don’t remember, but Chromatica and Lover might have been higher on release day and I’m sure they had more than 5 reviews. Most album scores drop in the following week, some take two weeks to reach their final score. On albumoftheyear.org, Dancing With the Devil is at 75 with 6 reviews, but that might not be the final score there either.
We can wait until mid next week to see where she ends up.
March 30, 2021 at 3:01 am #1204165451Well aren’t pop voters the only ones who vote in pop? Correct me if I’m wrong though
In theory, you are only meant to vote in your area of expertise. In practice, it never seems to be enforced. From an actual Grammy voter:
https://www.complex.com/music/2014/01/how-does-grammy-voting-work
I weighed in on the nominees for best pop album, even though I don’t pay as much attention to pop music as other genres. Hey, I told myself, pop is for people who don’t pay much attention anyway. In the final voting process, members are allowed to vote in even more categories —up to 20, plus the 4 general categories. Bottom line: the vast majority of the nominations are chosen by people who have little real expertise in a given field. I refrained from voting in heavy metal and classical because I know very little about those genres. But I could have if I wanted to, and that strikes me as a problem.
March 28, 2021 at 1:08 am #1204162182Olivia Rodrigo could pull a Billie/Lizzo/Lil Nas X (GF including BNA), or a Lewis Capaldi (SOTY, no BNA) and become ineligible. That’s why she needs to put more music out (above DL level) so that she doesn’t lose the attention so quickly and remains in the spotlight until voting season.
Lorde had an entire album out in 2013 and was nominated in BPVA, Pop Solo, SOTY and ROTY for the 2014 awards, but missed out on a BNA nomination. But yes, more music helps.
ReplyMarch 27, 2021 at 2:04 pm #1204161562if taylor were on a major label with lots of voters and contacts with the grammys she would not only have won the album of the year three times but would have taken the three main categories three times.
Taylor Swift was with Big Machine Records, which is distributed by Universal Music Group. She knew all the top people in Universal and went to all the Universal/Republic Grammy parties.
If you’re looking for a real underdog, I can think of one that was signed to small British indie label XL Recordings for her first three albums – if only Adele had been signed to a major label.
March 25, 2021 at 7:30 am #1204157404Actually metacritic doesn’t say the whole story, year-end lists by critics are more accurate for acclaim than metacritic, Billies album was above Arianas, despite lower metacritic and Dua with Taylor was neck to neck. Sweetener was the top performing pop vocal nominee in YE lists. I am only talking results between nominated artists, cause Honey and Bloom had no hits to be considered in the pop vocal album category.
Neither metacritic or albumoftheryear.org or year end lists tell the full story, but year-end lists are not more accurate for acclaim, they are simply different. The year end lists tend to favour the albums that are best remembered and most talked about in mainstream media.
Regardless of which you use, the most acclaimed album nominated didn’t win pop in 2021 and if we only want to talk about the acclaim of nominated albums, then we have a long wait.
Critical acclaim doesn’t help much at the Grammys overall, although it does help get an AOTY or other general field nomination (but not win) and is probably the most useless thing to have in pop.
ReplyMarch 24, 2021 at 10:40 pm #1204157065Actually, last 3 Pop Vocal Album winners had also big acclaim, Sweetener, WWAFAWDG and Future Nostalgia ended up high on the YEC of AOTY.org. I think if you have hits you win and the acclaim is sealing the deal, as an extra. All last 3 winners had interesting production and connected producers won POTY, too. I actually consider this good, because they kinda evaluate the project as a whole it seems. Ariana and Justin so far have the hits, Miley has the interesting production for me. I dont see Taylor winning after losing to Dua this year. The upcoming Billie album is the safest bet all things considered and if Therefore I Am is in the tracklist it is even better for its chances.
Recent winners had decent acclaim, but it wouldn’t be a reliable guide in predicting pop winners over the last 5 years.
2021 – Future Nostalgia (88) won over Folklore (88)
2020 – WWAFA WDWG (82) won over TUN (86) – NFR (87) and Honey (89) were eligible
2019 – Sweetener (81) won – more acclaimed pop albums eligible, e.g. Bloom (85)
2018 – Divide (62) won over Rainbow (81) – Melodrama (91) was eligible
2017 – 25 (75) won over Dangerous Woman (76)Using Metacritic as guide, only in 2019 we can say the most acclaimed nominee won in BPVA. In 2021 folklore was a little more acclaimed than FN, especially if we take year end lists into account. Even when a much more acclaimed album can reach #1 on the charts (2018), it’s not always a good bet for nomination, let alone winning.
Edit: added Honey by Robyn
ReplyMarch 22, 2021 at 6:59 pm #1204151979Enjoyed the Arlo Barks album “Collapsed In Sunbeams” quite a lot and would like to see her get something. But I remember another smaller UK artist with an acclaimed album in 2019, eligible for the 2020 awards.
Little Simz – “GREY Area” with 91 on metacritic
Different genre of course and perhaps Arlo Parks has a better chance, but it seems that smaller UK artists don’t do so well at the Grammys, without some sort of breakthrough. You need to be like Adele or Ed Sheeran.
ReplyMarch 21, 2021 at 5:22 am #1204148180That would be Harvey Mason and I wonder what rules changes are coming for 2022. He talked a little about it here:
On the secret committees, “I will say that our ultimate goal is to get to the point where our membership can determine these things… “
Translation, no change for 2022
On ranked choice voting, “I don’t know if it would result in better nominations, but it might result in something different.”
Ranked choice voting would be terrible and it appears that they know that, so it’s good that doesn’t seem to be happening.
I’m not sure what changes to expect here (if anything), perhaps change it so that the top 2-3 most voted songs/albums pass straight through to the final round.
But would that really help The Weeknd?
On The Weeknd missing nominations, “Some of it was [decided by] the [“secret”] nominating committees and some was the voting body, because some of the awards he was eligible for did not have nominating committees, so it was a combination of both.”
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